Trackdays - Have Your Say (read Before Placing A Post)

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Trackdays - Have Your Say (read Before Placing A Post)

If you're reading this then you probably take part in trackdays as an occasional hobby or maybe you're a regular trackdayer. Either way you take part in a group activity to use the UK's race tracks for pleasure and as a customer you expect to come away from your experience satisfied with the service your trackday provider has given.

I myself am not affiliated with any club or tdo, I use all of them to visit the tracks around the UK as a keen trackdayer and club racer. Having seen things from either end of the spectrum from trackday novice to ACU, it is apparent to me the range of needs to be catered for in a trackday.

This thread is your opportunity to voice your opinion of how the service you receive could possibly be improved, we are lucky to have several trackday providers each with their own method of running your day on track. Use this opportunity to get your point across as part of a group.

*Before you submit your post please pay attention to the guidelines below:

1.Do not include specific details of the trackday provider or names in your post.

2.Do not quote from other posts in this thread, this isn't intended to be a discussion and it is your personal opinion that is important

3.Be as constructive as you can, positive criticism is much more likely to be acted upon than negative.

To be honest, the most constructive thing i can say is THEY ARE GREAT ! i don't want them changing in the slightest. I've never seen all these 'muppets' that people go on about.Or the lunatics who cut everyone up.I've never actually been to a bad trackday, or one that's been poorly run.In the ideal world, i'd like a "road bike only" trackday or two... that would be pleasant for me, but not a major factor in whether i doa TD again etc.

I've only done 5 TD's - always on my road bike and as such I may take things a bit slower/safer than others since I can't really afford to trash it and I have to ride it home.I've done some days that are better than others but to be honest I've enjoyed them all.I personally like a few less bikes on track at once (more space, easier overtakes for all etc) and so am prepared to pay a bit more if necessary to get that.

I'd like to see the TDOs fit transponders and then move people up/down groups based on their times, fewer overtakes should result in fewer passes (or even crashes...). Getting people in true order of speed would be pretty much impossible but getting it closer would help.Also tyre warmers for hire.Also tools available (save me trying to bring my own on the back of the bike).

sargey2006 wrote

I'd like to see the TDOs fit transponders and then move people up/down groups based on their times, fewer overtakes should result in fewer passes. Getting people in true order of speed would be pretty much impossible but getting it closer would help.Also tyre warmers for hire.Also tools available (save me trying to bring my own on the back of the bike).

Why would you not want to see overtaking ? Is that where the crashes happen then ?

I love em all regardless of who is in charge,done about 25-30 this year and of to jerez on sunday Aint life a bitch

sargey2006 wrote

fewer overtakes should result in fewer passes.

Class

generally very happy with themseen some knobbish behaviour from time to time (usally from people who think they are faster or more talented than they really are!). have had to 'had a word' once - but no major dramas.find the fast group safest place

Can we have a jump on the start finnish straight at Donnington please, my old man moans he doesnt see much action from pit wall there, a 10 footer should do the trick.Ta

Strange that I see dickheads at every trackday I've done for the past two years and some haven't "seen" any? Admittedly I tend to do DOnington where they have more than the average share of them. I'd like to see TDOs only allocating spaces on ability. No space for your ability tough luck. I'd like to see the dickheads sent home more regularly with the TDOs operating and sharing a database of riders so that they can all put the fee up for dickheads or bar them for twelve months. I want TDOs to pull riders out of groups they are unsafe to be in and pit them until there's space in a group that their ability fits with.

Too expensive,too eager to wave the red flag,too eager to wave the black flag,sessions are too short,long boring speeches about safety etc...did i mention too expensive.This is gonna get me in trouble i suppose.All of the above is the total opposite to a good MX trackday or Enduro rideout:burnout:

i would say that earlier briefings would be a ggo idea and make the track open at 9am for the fast group to be out so we all get maximum track timeless bikes on track,dont care if it costs £10 more as i'd pay that for more clear track with less bikes to avoid/hold up. i've stuck to using NL so have no complaints of bikes being in wrong groups as i stay in the inters and it seems fairly even so dont have too many complaints on wrong people,guess it maybe different in the novices as it fills up after the inters is full. if you ask for inters and its full tough luck you should have booked up earlier and shouldnt go in novices,i know off ex racers who go in novices rather than fast group which is where they clearly belongand that needs to be changed.

Lets havea; Safety briefings, not 15 minute hard sells, it's not rock science;1; go through the flags green, all is well, carry on! yellow, incident on track, ease off, no overtaking. red, damn serious incident on track, session is over, get the fuck over to the right h/s, ease right off, be ready to stop, no overtaking. red/yellow stripe, limited grip on the track in this section somewhere, be aware. black, report to the TD master, all is not well with you or your bike.2; saftey - this is REAL simple and can be summed up in one short sentence; "look after the bloke in front of you, if we all do that we'll have great day and all go home happy" 3; that's it, if I want some photographs, suspension setting up, on board video etc. I'll ask, I don't need telling, I can see the stall. b; enforcement of the above, you break these rules you can go home, no ifs, no buts.c; traveling marshals, instructors, call them what you like, but lets have ones who care more about TD conduct and punters having a good time than they do about comparing laptimes.

Reducing the number of riders in a group is going to cost more than an additional £10. With Donington costing over £25,000 to hire for the day in 2006 organisers need to be putting around 50 riders in each group to just break even. Discounts for early and mulitple booking mean profit margins are very slim.

philthy wrote

Reducing the number of riders in a group is going to cost more than an additional £10. With Donington costing over £25,000 to hire for the day in 2006 organisers need to be putting around 50 riders in each group to just break even. Discounts for early and mulitple booking mean profit margins are very slim.

Just wondering but are you sure that Donny is £25k to hire? - Oulton was less than £12K + VAT to hire this year and the TDO's charge about the same for both tracks. Brands GP was £22.5K + VAT this year which explains why it is the dearest day out there.

According to Mark at NL and I've no reason to doubt him. Don't forget Donington is considered the premier circuit in the UK and has outstanding facilities.

My perfect TDO A Novel by ClanktankMore Track Time.People who miss the chequered flag and do another flying lap should be banned from the next session.No crawling round on the last lap so it takes an age to recover all the riders, just keep a good pace and get back in safely.Prompt start at 9am, no faffing around with late briefings or delays in pitlane. If your not at the briefing or don't line up in time for compulsory sighting laps then tough.Dickheads being sent home more often.The warnings given at the briefing should be followed up and not ignored/shrugged off by the TDO. If more than one rider, or if an instructor/marshall see's bad behaviour then it should be one warning, and then if you get another one you're out, unless it was particularly idiotic where they should go immediately. Monkeys there to practice wheelies or impress their mates with close overtakes should be gone by lunchtime.BriefingsThese should be a reminder of what was on the paperwork and disclaimer you were sent and which you read properly and signed before going on track, not a full blown lecture on how many dickheads we had last week so you lot have to suffer for it.Novices should get an extra briefing away from the inters and fast group after the quick main briefing.GroupsAll first time track riders should go in Novices, no arguments even if your mates are in Inters.Decent Instructors and not just a fast group clique/ex-racers social clubThey should be out there looking at who's fast and who's not and then recommending changes to groups. If they concentrate on this for the morning then all the groups should be sorted well before lunch and everyone can have a great time the rest of the day. Someone here called them rolling marshalls, which I think should sum up their job quite well as they shouldn't be just be "instructors".If they are instructing then take that rider out in the appropriate group, as I've seen them taking someone from the fast group out in Novice to do some quick laps which scares the crap out of some newer riders.TDO's United?Perhaps as has been mentioned before, TDO's could actually talk to eachother and get organised amongst themselves for benefit of all. I'm not talking about being regulated, although that may come in time, but just acting as proper businesses with common working practice within the industry. Showing the ability to self-regulate now may be stop it getting regulations imposed on it in the future?Benefits could be:Shared database of riders, good and bad, which would highlight idiots and aid gauging riders ability for correct group allocation, as they will know how many TD's you've done. (see my note about Novices in Groups section above)Riders being more confident and happier by knowing what to expect at any given trackday, and so therefore encouraging more riders to do trackdays.Briefings being the same for all and so wasting less time explaining the differences and avoiding confusion (do we slow on the last lap with this TDO or blast it to the finish?)

Clanktank wrote

[Shared database of riders, good and bad, which would highlight idiots and aid gauging riders ability for correct group allocation, as they will know how many TD's you've done.

Lots of excellent points, but from a personal perspective, this one doesn't sit well with me. The rider should be able to decide on the group no matter how many days they have done. I've done 50+ trackdays, i've played in fast on many occasions, these days, i want to pootle about and trundle round taking in the sights.... Based using your criteria, i'd have to go in fast... i don't wanna

Ingie wrote

Class

Ah well, my typing may be crap but my logic is impeccable...

I don't have many problems any more as I always book with my chosen trackday company No Limits.I would pay £10 more or so for less riders but it isn't that much of an issue that it affects my choice.I do see most crashes being single bikes and a lot are on cold tyres/1st lap. How you get this through to people I don't know as it is one of the things that is always covered. Maybe a bigger sign as you ride out saying 'cold tyres' ?I don't see bad riding as widespread as some people, by that I don't mean people crashing on their own but people involving others in their incident. Yup I've been knocked off once but in around 150 trackdays the odds aren't too great. I guess for me it's the stupid crashes on cold tyres that bug me as they are easily avoidable.On the whole I'm more than happy with the company I use.

Safety is and should always be paramount, and needs to be convieyed in a way it is listened to and understood (I have attended 2 track days this year, 1 abroad and 1 in the UK with different organisers where someone stop on track to help someone who had crashed! They clearly didn't listen to the briefing, or understand it).But, with the sell issue. We need to remember that it still is a buisness, and the best time to sell is when you have a captive audiance. Something we need to get used to.

To my mind briefings should always be held but they should be optional for all but first timers as they make no effing difference. Everyone signs a discalimer - if they don't want to attend a briefing, why should they? I was at Mallory yesterday and despite all the warnings someone high sided in front of me coming out of the Lake Esses on the first sighting lap! In fact, I think all of the first sessions were red flagged. As for the rest of it, I accept it is a track day and that I am not always going to get a clear run round. I don't think paying a few extra quid will stop that as there will always be a complete mix of abilities and paces (and bikes for that matter). I do, however, believe that the TDOs should spend more time assessing riders abilities and moving them around. I have no problem with slower or faster riders as long as they are competent for the group. Back to the old debate of fast or experienced. What I don't want is some w@nker on an R1, ZX10 etc blitzing me on the straights and then wobbling round the corners. Other than that, I am quite happy. Yeah, some TDOs are better than other but .....

Ok, it does annoy me when people are blatently in the wrong group for there ability so I think the TDO should take more notice of whats happening on track and have bigger balls to say to someone "your too slow/fast for this group so were moving you", novice riders dont need some twat whose trying to look like a riding god buzzing them on a overtake same way as the more advanced folk dont need tossers who just want to get there knee down at every bloody corner and dont care how slow they go around it, I had this earlier this year at cadwell, the bloke's bike was like a rocket down the straights but as soon as it came to a corner he threw the anchor out and was just trying to get his knee down Briefings bug me too, yes I know they have to do them for insurance puposes etc but do the advanced group really need to hear the same BS as the novice group I think there should be a pass sort of system where by once youve heard one TDO's briefing they issue you with something to say you dont need to go to the whole briefing every time again that season but you must still attend the start of the briefing for any specific instructions for that day.

jason r wrote

Too expensive

deej77 wrote

less bikes on track,dont care if it costs £10 more as i'd pay that for more clear track with less bikes to avoid/hold up.

Ah the eternal dichotomy

phuk72 wrote

To my mind briefings should always be held but they should be optional for all but first timers as they make no effing difference.

But what about the part of the briefing where the TDO tells you to watch out for x at the exit of y? Or the cars that were there the day before having left some oil on the exit of z?

flashart wrote

Ok, it does annoy me when people are blatently in the wrong group for there ability so I think the TDO should take more notice of whats happening on track and have bigger balls to say to someone "your too slow/fast for this group so were moving you"

Well that's all very well and good, but TDOs are limited to the number of riders in each group so some rely on the customers being honest as to which group they should be in. Other TDOs may just stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap, of course.So when you've a full Inters group with 'proper' inters in it, the TDO cannot necessarily move someone up or down without having to do some juggling.

jason r wrote

Too expensive,too eager to wave the red flag,too eager to wave the black flag,sessions are too short,long boring speeches about safety etc...did i mention too expensive.This is gonna get me in trouble i suppose.All of the above is the total opposite to a good MX trackday or Enduro rideout:burnout:

that's crap. i do track days and mx . the average cost for a mx track is £25,about four or five 20 minutes sessions,crap food and get to shit in a bucket. also shit first aiders.

Harry Monk wrote

I love em all regardless of who is in charge,done about 25-30 this year and of to jerez on sunday Aint life a bitch

congratulations on your lottery win

It's funny how people always say they would pay an extra tenner but then go and book the cheapest day available and ignore those organisers that do actually put less people out on track.Even wondered why those 'not for profit' track day organisers still charge a comparable amount to the others? That'll be less riders on track!

:smokeo like me track days and cant see how the tdo can get them much better,Tis the nature of the game,i go to push myself and bike if i want to potter around i may as well stay on the road and no crashers yet well one in the rain at donny but that only alow side at melbourn ie dont count,The only way they could make it better is for tdo to give us a nice warm place to stay when its pissing down,o they do CAFE ok what about free beer just to help relax

Interesting thread. I've done loads of trackdays over the past 6 years, including 4 foreign ones.I love trackdays (when my bike works well and I don't crash).I know my ability and I'm not fast, I used to be inters, then crashed and broke my bike badly. Once it was fixed I had no confidence in me or the bike, the bike was f**ked even when I thought it was ok. I requested the novice group to shake down myself and the bike, not to scare novices. The TDO I regularly used put me in the fast group when I'd requested novice or inters. My bike didn't run properly ever again (tried it on 6 plus days after various work, it even caught fire!). This was generally at Silverstone so some of you will know the TDO!I'll never break records but being shoved / forced into a group I'm not comfortable with really pi$$ed me off. All I want to do is ride around a track and enjoy myself at my own pace. Not racing! No testosterone, no lap records, no grief.Is that too much to ask?Also, I do understand the briefing needs to be listened to by all the participants for insurance purposes, but I don't need the hard sell for services or other events all the time. Keep the briefing short and to the point.............safety for you and others, trackdays can be dangerous. The selling bit can be for flyers or at the end of the compulsory bit, optional. People glaze over after a while and miss the important information, like how to ride on the lap after the chequered flag!!For anyone that is interested, the 3-4 day European trackdays are so much more enjoyable, much more relaxed, not many stoppages and 3-4 days to learn the track. Without the win it or bin it mentality I see on UK single day events. I've been to many UK days where nearly all the sessions end in red flags, all day.Above all, a trackday is just that, a day to ride the track, at a pace you're comfortable with. Anyone wishing to race should do just that, or at least be in the fast group!Just my thoughts............:burnout:

I can believe Donington at a weekend can cost that much, as it costs our race club about £57,000 to run a race day there yes big money.Jim

CaptainBlue wrote

Well that's all very well and good, but TDOs are limited to the number of riders in each group so some rely on the customers being honest as to which group they should be in. Other TDOs may just stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap, of course.So when you've a full Inters group with 'proper' inters in it, the TDO cannot necessarily move someone up or down without having to do some juggling.

Thats fine, but in my experience there is always someone in the fast group thats too slow and someone in the inters thats too fast, thing is they start becoming a hazard to the others on track but the TDO's never take any notice, but as you said they rely on people being honest and selecting what groups best for them even though the TDO always mention in their briefings "we'll keep an eye on track and move you if we think your in the wrong group" this just does'nt happen Oh and REF to prices, this is something I was shown recently, not for Donnie I know and there a bit out of date but gives you an idea

Tomcat wrote

And a point of my own..... not everybody rides a 600/1000. While some fast group riders are genuinely fast most rely on blasting down the straights and thrupenny bitting round the corners. This makes it a bit of a bugger if you've got a bike that's down on power but corners well.

Indeed, I did Brands Indy (in inters) first time ever a month or so back on my NSR250, a buddy timed me at around 1.03 - 1.04 but I never got one truely clear lap that session and precious few all day, every lap I got held up somewhere, normally on the run up to Clearways and didn't get passed once anywhere near a corner except on the odd occasion when some tosser put the sort of pass you get asked not to do on me and the three bikes that were holding me up Anyway, if I did Brands again after a couple of sessions (presuming the same sort of pace) I would probably ask to move into fast, but would imagine I'd not lap much under a minute. Yet some guy on this very forum got ripped to bits for "only" running 1 minute laps in fast.Start grouping people by lap times and there's a risk on a bad day (lots of very quick bikes and not so quick riders) that I'll end up in novice which will be about as much fun as breaking my legs again

Donington has to be the worst place for stopages. Doesn't matter who the TDO is, (Donington's own Track Attack have the highest incident total), there's always dickheads attracted there probably because of the prestige of it being the home of the BMGP. Riders have to face facts; the briefing is a requirement of the circuit managers and the insurers. It should be broken down to experienced trackdayers and a separate one for novices. TDOs have to be firm with riders who are a liability on or off the track. It's time they started kicking riders off the track to instill some discipline back into the game. They don't have to be arseholes with how they do it. Riders provide enough ammunition to support the action. Mobile marshalls should be getting more involved too. Split the groups of mates up who are having their private race series and getting in everyone else's way. And ditch the dross instructors who are there simply because they're mates with someone. They don't have the speed or the talent to be addressing the majority of riders out there sometimes.

Well the Folly have a briefing for everyone before the Fast Group go out. Whilst they're out and the Inters are getting ready, a separate briefing is held for the Novices who then go out 'ducks in a row' for their first session.

fontyy wrote

Yet some guy on this very forum got ripped to bits for "only" running 1 minute laps in fast.Start grouping people by lap times and there's a risk on a bad day (lots of very quick bikes and not so quick riders) that I'll end up in novice which will be about as much fun as breaking my legs again

Trouble is Id do the fast group and be running 51's round Brands on my SV!. No one gets ripped to bits but see it from another perspective, if you and lots others did the fast group running a 1min lap, then us quicker riders would sufer from the same problems that you encountered.Ive ridden on days where groups were decided by laptimes and it flowed very well and worked superbly.

fontyy wrote

Start grouping people by lap times and there's a risk on a bad day (lots of very quick bikes and not so quick riders) that I'll end up in novice which will be about as much fun as breaking my legs again

Forget what the groups called, if the pace of the group is the same as your lap times you should be in that group.I was at mallory the other week and i generally lap 57-58s on a trackday - nothing spectacular afterall its not a race. I'm in the fast group, there were riders out there not even riding medium pace - you know the sort, big old tourer with a 3ft spuare numberplate. ruined my day and doubt they enjoyed fast riders blitzing them left right and centre. so whats the point? there are no winners in that situation.

Tomcat wrote

While some fast group riders are genuinely fast most rely on blasting down the straights and thrupenny bitting round the corners. .

That works for me

orangevest (not verified)

I cannot believe how you lot keep slagging off tdo`s, If your that pissed off with them all start your own company and do it better,The simple facts are briefings have to be done the circuit decides exactly how not always the tdo.Instructors for fe do not get paid so when I hear people moan about seeing them having a blast its bollox although they should only do it in the fast group, what you don`t see is the amount of bollockings we give out and get abuse for, the fact that we are there at 7am setting up pit lane and helping people out, I`m not saying all instructors are great some are arseholes just like some of the punters are, what you should remember is that when an arsehole punter decides our orange vest is a target and takes us off or we just have a spill due to oil or debris on the track not one of you or the tdo comes round and pays our bills while we`re off work,As for the sales pitch during the briefing well thats just business you have to let people know what you offer on a certain day, the que for the pics is always massive so people must want it.How anybody can moan about being told about tyres is beyond me when I`ve seen tyres in pit lane down to the cloth and badly inflated,As for people falling off due to being in the wrong group it does happen but to my mind if a slow person has a fast person off its because the fast one has not given enough room 99% of the time.Silverstone takes 240 bods on a gp day, Put that amount of riders out on the road for a day and see how many come back in a hearse.

orangevest wrote

I cannot believe how you lot keep slagging off tdo`s, If your that pissed off with them all start your own company and do it better,The simple facts are briefings have to be done the circuit decides exactly how not always the tdo.Instructors for fe do not get paid so when I hear people moan about seeing them having a blast its bollox although they should only do it in the fast group, what you don`t see is the amount of bollockings we give out and get abuse for, the fact that we are there at 7am setting up pit lane and helping people out, I`m not saying all instructors are great some are arseholes just like some of the punters are, what you should remember is that when an arsehole punter decides our orange vest is a target and takes us off or we just have a spill due to oil or debris on the track not one of you or the tdo comes round and pays our bills while we`re off work,As for the sales pitch during the briefing well thats just business you have to let people know what you offer on a certain day, the que for the pics is always massive so people must want it.How anybody can moan about being told about tyres is beyond me when I`ve seen tyres in pit lane down to the cloth and badly inflated,As for people falling off due to being in the wrong group it does happen but to my mind if a slow person has a fast person off its because the fast one has not given enough room 99% of the time.Silverstone takes 240 bods on a gp day, Put that amount of riders out on the road for a day and see how many come back in a hearse.

Boohoohoo! Now fuck off to the other thread where you and your clique'y instructor mates are pretending to not know eachother and bitch about eachothers riding and personal habits, cos were not interested in how tough it is for you.We pay our money for a decent service which some of the time we don't get, and to hear you slagging us off on a thread for suggesting how things could be improved really isn't helping your case or giving the impression of a caring and listening TDO.Oh, and put 240 riders on the road and I'm pretty sure all 240 will come back safe and sound. How many people commute on bikes every day with no fatalities? You've been reading too much propaganda from the goverment, police and Daily Mail matey.

orangevest wrote

I cannot believe how you lot keep slagging off tdo`s, If your that pissed off with them all start your own company and do it better,The simple facts are briefings have to be done the circuit decides exactly how not always the tdo.Instructors for fe do not get paid so when I hear people moan about seeing them having a blast its bollox although they should only do it in the fast group, what you don`t see is the amount of bollockings we give out and get abuse for, the fact that we are there at 7am setting up pit lane and helping people out, I`m not saying all instructors are great some are arseholes just like some of the punters are, what you should remember is that when an arsehole punter decides our orange vest is a target and takes us off or we just have a spill due to oil or debris on the track not one of you or the tdo comes round and pays our bills while we`re off work,As for the sales pitch during the briefing well thats just business you have to let people know what you offer on a certain day, the que for the pics is always massive so people must want it.How anybody can moan about being told about tyres is beyond me when I`ve seen tyres in pit lane down to the cloth and badly inflated,As for people falling off due to being in the wrong group it does happen but to my mind if a slow person has a fast person off its because the fast one has not given enough room 99% of the time.Silverstone takes 240 bods on a gp day, Put that amount of riders out on the road for a day and see how many come back in a hearse.

come off it mate you've been taking the piss for about 3 days so don't start gettin on your high horse......... go and patronise your novices.well said clankatank.

orangevest (not verified)

Clanktank wrote

Boohoohoo! Now fuck off to the other thread where you and your clique'y instructor mates are pretending to not know eachother and bitch about eachothers riding and personal habits, cos were not interested in how tough it is for you.We pay our money for a decent service which some of the time we don't get, and to hear you slagging us off on a thread for suggesting how things could be improved really isn't helping your case or giving the impression of a caring and listening TDO.Oh, and put 240 riders on the road and I'm pretty sure all 240 will come back safe and sound. How many people commute on bikes every day with no fatalities? You've been reading too much propaganda from the goverment, police and Daily Mail matey.

No one has slagged you ofF you fucking mug, its cunts like you we give up time and money for, Your a twat 240 riders don`t commute all together do they, I`ve had 5 mates killed on the road 1 of them 3 weeks back.If you want to boo hoo me name your date and track and do it to my face you brave twat. none of the money you pay comes to us and like i said if your that unhappy start your own tdo or just spend the rest of your life hiding behind a computer, MUPPET

orangevest (not verified)

tommyrocket wrote

come off it mate you've been taking the piss for about 3 days so don't start gettin on your high horse......... go and patronise your novices.well said clankatank.

I`ve took the piss out of other instructors, Its not a high horse its a case of you lot not being happy with the way things are done but not doing anything about it, all you do is bitch behind a keyboard, you tell me to go patronise the novices maybe you should remember you were one once and probably still are, ANYBODY WHO PAYS MONEY FOR SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH IS A MUG................

orangevest (not verified)

Clanktank wrote

Boohoohoo! Now fuck off to the other thread where you and your clique'y instructor mates are pretending to not know eachother and bitch about eachothers riding and personal habits, cos were not interested in how tough it is for you.We pay our money for a decent service which some of the time we don't get, and to hear you slagging us off on a thread for suggesting how things could be improved really isn't helping your case or giving the impression of a caring and listening TDO.Oh, and put 240 riders on the road and I'm pretty sure all 240 will come back safe and sound. How many people commute on bikes every day with no fatalities? You've been reading too much propaganda from the goverment, police and Daily Mail matey.

Are you saying that there are no rider fatalities on a daily basis,

flashart wrote

Oh and REF to prices, this is something I was shown recently, not for Donnie I know and there a bit out of date but gives you an idea

OK, based on that, let's do some sums:£12,250 plus VAT = £14,393.75.38 (I think) max. per group less 3 instructors and maybe 2 from the TDO = 99 riders.Basic cost per rider £145.So to break even, you need to fill your entire day @ £145. Then you need to somehow include for the insurances, operating and advertising costs, a second ambulance and crew in some cases - you don't want the day curtailed because there's no medical cover if they're carting a faller off to hospital.On the basis that you should allow for not being able to fill the day just in case - especially if the stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap boys are there the same week, let's go for 80 riders. That means basic cost per rider is £180.And who'd honestly pay that for a mickey mouse go-cart circuit (IMHO)?No wonder I've seen reports of TDOs running 4 groups...

was at brands on monday and not sure if it was cos i was stepping up to fast for the first time, or the fact that the guy doing the briefing was more charismatic/to the point than others i've heard but the briefing was pretty decent. he mentioned the services but didn't lay it on thick, and rattled through the safety points with the MSV guy duely checking off. everyone seemed to be paying attention too.also had a guy come up to me after one of the sessions to ask if it was me that the organisors thought he'd stood up. to be honest, i was struggling to remember at the time, but think i know what they were referring to and was too close/a bit daft, and they'd had a word with him for it. 100% agree about the hire of paddock stands and warmers. not only would it cut down on the first lap heros lobbing machinery, but if you have no transport as i dont, its hard work trying to organise to get people to bring the gear for me. from an organiser's point of view, i'm amazed they dont do it more as there must be a huge potential margin in it.

What's so difficult about building things up for your your first two or three laps to get the tyres up to temperature?It's not a race, after all...

didn't anything was wrong with it mate, just that for those of us that would prefer to go out with warm tyres, having an easy access option would be a positive which i foolishly believed that was what this thread was about?i'm not saying you have to use em, but personally would rather concentrate on settling into a rythmn and build my speed rather than wrestling the bike whilst the tyres fill out and wondering if they've got enough heat in 'em yet. not to mention the wear you save on the tyres from not heat cycling them and getting cold sheer.and not being funny, but if people are dropping their bikes on cold tyres, and have been warned to warm their tyres, and still want to push on and risk a lob, they seem to be ideal candidates for warmers.its not a race, but its not a cruise either.

if you want warmers, go and buy them, decent TD ones can be bought for £90... so why add another thing in for the TD to organise, in hiring them out, taking deposits off people as some will not return them at the end of the day..... if you want warmers, then buy them. if your riding to a TD, have you considered how you would get home, if you had an off? thats why so many people hav trailers and vans

if you re-read my post you'll notice that i mentioned i have trouble getting my gear to the track - i already own HWW warmers, and harris stands. you tried carrying paddock stands on a motorbike? reasonably tricky.i'm not suggesting they do it as an act of charity - i believe there is margin in it for them. the deposit is supposed to cover the risk of someone being a cheeky ponce, and they have their names, confirmed on the driving licences so its not like its that much of a punt. take the driving licence off them as security. there are plenty of ways that this can be done. its clearly up to them to decide if reward outways the effort. this thread is 'supposed' to be about what we'd like to see/have on trackdaysdont know what the fuck your point is about 'the hassle for the TDO'. the TDO are 'organisers', this is what they do, for money, as a job, a proffession, work undertaken for remunation. how much time do you think it takes for them to dish out 10-20 warmers? or just hire out stands etci might have an off? really, thought never occurred to me. must be nice to have the available funds to buy a track bike, a car, a trailer, arrange for parking and storage etc. nonce

johnnybravo wrote

and not being funny, but if people are dropping their bikes on cold tyres, and have been warned to warm their tyres, and still want to push on and risk a lob, they seem to be ideal candidates for warmers.

More like ideal candidates for a Darwin Award

johnnybravo wrote

if you re-read my post you'll notice that i mentioned i have trouble getting my gear to the track - i already own HWW warmers, and harris stands. you tried carrying paddock stands on a motorbike? reasonably tricky....dont know what the fuck your point is about 'the hassle for the TDO'. the TDO are 'organisers', this is what they do, for money, as a job, a proffession, work undertaken for remunation. how much time do you think it takes for them to dish out 10-20 warmers? or just hire out stands etc

Well I'd quite like to turn up to a trackday and have a team of mechanics ready to prep. my bike and massage my shoulders and then be led out to the start of each session by a brolly dolly.But I don't have those facilities with me and it's only fairly recently I've started driving up with the bike on a trailer and my tools in the back of the car.You're saying the TDO is supposed to lay on 10-20 sets - what happens if more people wanted them? Where are all these tryre warmers supposed to be plugged in, or are they supposed to lay on generators for everyone too? Where are the TDOs supposed to store all this stuff? It's only FE - I think - that has the big wagons, isn't it?And not all TDOs do this for their profession: some do it not for profit to increase track time for people and to ride them themselves.

CaptainBlue wrote

More like ideal candidates for a Darwin Award Well I'd quite like to turn up to a trackday and have a team of mechanics ready to prep. my bike and massage my shoulders and then be led out to the start of each session by a brolly dolly.But I don't have those facilities with me and it's only fairly recently I've started driving up with the bike on a trailer and my tools in the back of the car.You're saying the TDO is supposed to lay on 10-20 sets - what happens if more people wanted them? Where are all these tryre warmers supposed to be plugged in, or are they supposed to lay on generators for everyone too? Where are the TDOs supposed to store all this stuff? It's only FE - I think - that has the big wagons, isn't it?And not all TDOs do this for their profession: some do it not for profit to increase track time for people and to ride them themselves.

now you're talking! as long as its the brolly dolly giving me the rub, rather than you geezi dont know if you're aware of this but i know of at least one organiser that provides them, but unfortunately normally doesn't work out to be the one that is covering the dates i can make. it doesnt' have to the tdo themselves - they could have arrangements with people selling parts, or the tyre guys etc. if more wanted? first come first served. i'd want to be pre-booking this, so they'd now what needed to be brought in advance. personally have yet to go to a track without proper garages but am aware which tracks dont have them, and i prefer not to go there. again, if its too much hassle for particular tracks, dont provide them in those instances.i was under the impression that the majority of the calendar dates are going to the profit TDOs at present, and one in particular has a larger market share in that respectput it this way, if given the choice between two tdos at similar dates at the same track, and i can hire stands with one of 'em, i'm going to book that one.

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