Yamaha to develop turbo-diesel inline four
It had to happen; US website unearths Yamaha's plans for a turbocharged diesel burner
OUR FRIENDS in the USA at hellforleather.com have unearthed firm evidence that Yamaha are in the process of developing an inline-four intercooled and turbocharged diesel.
The company have filed a patent application for a compact design, which will see the turbocharger located close to the cylinder head for minimum turbolag.
We think it's a spanking idea. OK, it may not be suitable for high-performance superbikes but the right sort of turbo-diesel engine would make an ideal powerplant for many real-world machines.
Would you ride a turbo-diesel bike?
Discuss this story
Why not a high performance bike? Aren't diesels spanking allcomers in Touring Cars / Le Mans etc? I'd have one
Posted: 10/07/2009 at 11:38
Why not a high performance bike? Aren't diesels spanking allcomers in Touring Cars / Le Mans etc? I'd have one
I think that is more to do with differences in regulations and them not quite getting the balance right yet. I don’t know if it has changed now but it used to be that diesels had less restrictions on air inlets that gave them a big advantage, also the mpg aspect is a big advantage in 24 hour racing. How the hell can they patent a turbo diesel bike though? Surely that counts as obvious?
Posted: 10/07/2009 at 13:23
will it run on red ??  south of france for a tenner. 
Posted: 10/07/2009 at 16:09
How the hell can they patent a turbo diesel bike though? Surely that counts as obvious?
The big manus slam patents in for all sorts of stuff. They can afford it and they may make some money from them. Got to be worth a go. I'd love them to make a good, affordable diesel bike - mid-sized tourer (Deauville style) would be an ideal format for it. Or as a big scooter....
Posted: 10/07/2009 at 16:23
I think a V Twing Turbo Diesel Cruiser would be great.
Neander?
i like that... you can also get a royal enfield deisel made to order for about 2.5 k ish. it doesnt go fast but it does 180 mpg....i'd be very interested in a deisel bike...i could run it on veg oil..although deisel is cheaper than veg now
Posted: 13/07/2009 at 10:37
Just remember to give the taxman his cut mate. Anyone remember those guys in Wales getting stung a couple of years back? Fwiw I'd love a TDi Diversion, be ideal for my wee jaunt up country twice a month...
Posted: 13/07/2009 at 18:33
Flo wrote(see) Just remember to give the taxman his cut mate.
No need now - the government now allow something like 2500 litres of waste veg oil per household per year to be used as fuel duty free - simply because any less than that and it costs them more to enforce than the revenue raised. You used to need to keep the receipts for the veg oil fuel with the vehicle, but I don't believe that's still the case. I'm currently building a bike based on a 23hp Hatz diesel engine out of a welder generator. Going to be very slow (but much faster than the enfield diesels), sound like an ill tractor, but do about 120mpg if all goes to plan. I have a sneaking suspicion I'll also be able to use my old engine oil as fuel in it. The Neander sucks - rubbish fuel economy. Probably 'cos it's such a heavy thing - those twin cranks are enormous (not a V-twin). Kinda misses the point to me - petrol bikes can be made to do pretty much everything else better, apart from fuel economy, so why make a diesel so big, heavy and daft that it has rubbish economy too? Doesn't surprise me that the japs are looking at in-line fours - much easier to turbo charge than a twin as the exhaust gas pressure is smoother, which is rather handy for a very lightweight, lowish pressure turbo designed to reduce lag.
Posted: 14/07/2009 at 00:38
I think it's a good idea ... Not every one want to be hooning it around at warp speed ... I've seen one chap made a bike up out of a cement mixer diesel engine ... If I remember right he done the trip land's end to John"O" Groat's on one tank of fuel ... If you are going to start changing 30/40 MPG in to a hundred MPG ... There's got to be a market and a big one as well ... I'd be looking at one and that's a certainty ... John933
Posted: 14/07/2009 at 18:21
120 mpg . . . sounds impressive BUT if you factor in the cost of the new bike say £7500 compared to a secondhand bike like my Thunderace £1250, which at at a steady 80 on the motorway gives 45 mpg!
You are not comparing like with like. Wait 'till they have a bike on sale and compare it with another and similar new bike to see if there is any saving. (Although 45mpg is rubbish - I have to go some to get the Voyager below 65mpg ) Also as diesel is at least as expensive as petrol it needs you to do an awful lot of miles & we all know the depreciation on high mileage bikes ? ? ?
In the UK it is more expensive but across the channel diesel is usually cheaper than petrol. Thankfully Yamaha don't just make bikes for the UK market!
Posted: 14/07/2009 at 19:51
I'll throw a curve ball in, the size of exhausts on modern petrol bikes are getting bigger, to pass emissions testing, now imagine a diesel engine trying to pass emission testing, what with the particualte filter, it could end up weighing more than a fully loaded Goldwing, with out a set of crash mushrooms on it! Personally I hope it works and makes it, anything that can progress motorcycles forward is a good thing in my book, Bradley Smith in Moto GP in his 30's on Diesel powered GP bike anyone.... You heard it here first!!  Excuse the spelling its been a long day.
Posted: 14/07/2009 at 20:49
I'll throw a curve ball in, the size of exhausts on modern petrol bikes are getting bigger, to pass emissions testing, now imagine a diesel engine trying to pass emission testing
I suspect that's partly why they've gone for a turbo-charged engine
Posted: 14/07/2009 at 22:18
Hi Guys, This is my first time on this forum, so be easy on me if I muck up!!! I say bring it on, I have been a die hard on diesels cars for years, the evolution of common rail diesel has transformed the performance & economy of these engines, and if Yamaha get there mitts on one, I'm sure it will be somethng special. Think of all that low down torque, and economy, should be great for tourer & commuter bikes.
Posted: 14/07/2009 at 22:30
I bet the Great Ernie Dorsett (Mr Diesel) is looking down on this development with "GLEE".After his bikes he made powered by the "Robin" diesel as i have.I look forward to a test ride on onehavig covered 30,000 Miles on my Diesel bike. Ride with #Care and LIve Long.
Posted: 15/07/2009 at 08:47
Flo wrote(see) Just remember to give the taxman his cut mate.
No need now - the government now allow something like 2500 litres of waste veg oil per household per year to be used as fuel duty free - simply because any less than that and it costs them more to enforce than the revenue raised. You used to need to keep the receipts for the veg oil fuel with the vehicle, but I don't believe that's still the case. I'm currently building a bike based on a 23hp Hatz diesel engine out of a welder generator. Going to be very slow (but much faster than the enfield diesels), sound like an ill tractor, but do about 120mpg if all goes to plan. I have a sneaking suspicion I'll also be able to use my old engine oil as fuel in it. The Neander sucks - rubbish fuel economy. Probably 'cos it's such a heavy thing - those twin cranks are enormous (not a V-twin). Kinda misses the point to me - petrol bikes can be made to do pretty much everything else better, apart from fuel economy, so why make a diesel so big, heavy and daft that it has rubbish economy too? Doesn't surprise me that the japs are looking at in-line fours - much easier to turbo charge than a twin as the exhaust gas pressure is smoother, which is rather handy for a very lightweight, lowish pressure turbo designed to reduce lag.
I didn't know that, it's great news! Even if the diesel only manages 55mpg on recycled oil (the same as my petrol Sprint) I could have 31 and a bit 'free' trips up the line each year. Come on Yamaha, build me a diesel Divvie!
Posted: 15/07/2009 at 16:20
Well lets face the fact of life, if i wanna go fast and get 45mpg i'll use my hayabusa. If i wanna go slow (60mph) and get 90mpg i'll use the mrs 125. either way small diesels are less tractable, less powerfull,heavier and altogether more expensive than petrol engines. Unless you need to steal some fuel out of a truck halfway across a desert exactly what is the point? As far as patents go, you aint ever going to patent a diesel engine BUT if you have a unique way of doing something such as a new type of injector you can patent that. diesels are for big heavy vehicles, even modern fuel injected cars rival diesel mpg often with far lighter, cheaper and lets face it, more civilised power plants
Posted: 17/08/2009 at 21:40
Unless you need to steal some fuel out of a truck halfway across a desert exactly what is the point?
That is a benefit for some - but when petrol stops coming out of the pumps at a price you can afford you can chug about on a bike powered by a ditch pump running on vegetable oil. diesels are for big heavy vehicles, even modern fuel injected cars rival diesel mpg often with far lighter, cheaper and lets face it, more civilised power plants
Which cars 'rival' their petrol equivalents? I know there can be some economic disadvantages from buying a diesel engined car (as some cost a lot more to buy and, depending on fuel cost, can take a very long time to 'pay-back') but I can't think of a manufacturer that makes a petrol vehicle that rivals a diesel in simple fuel economy.
Posted: 18/08/2009 at 07:26
Diesel/petrol economy, i hava a 3.2 v6 petrol omega. My mate has a 2.5 diesel omega (bmw engine). I get 37mpg on a run he gets 42. I have 220 horsepower he has 128. As soon as you put your foot down in the diesel or load it up and get on a motorway its struggling. Diesels only work efficiently when they are plodding around, spin up your turbo and your economy goes down your exhaust pipe. Horses for courses i think, if you want a bike to plod around the world get an oil burner if you want a bike to commute any distance or to actually enjoy riding i'd stick to a petrol anytime. Diesel scooter like a burgman maybe that meakes sense but then small diesels are not efficient.
Posted: 18/08/2009 at 12:09
Diesel/petrol economy, i hava a 3.2 v6 petrol omega. My mate has a 2.5 diesel omega (bmw engine). I get 37mpg on a run he gets 42. I have 220 horsepower he has 128. As soon as you put your foot down in the diesel or load it up and get on a motorway its struggling.
It is hardly a shock that some late 80's designed old bus with some antique BMW diesel v. a high powered petrol dragging the same sized old barge are not that far apart in consumption. Have the two covered the same mileage, had the correct servicing and identical care as well? That aged BMW 6 cylinder oil burner needs 4500 mile oil changes. I'd wager it hasn't had them. All that will affect the fuel consumption. Instead of comparing apples and pears what MODERN equivalents could you compare?
Posted: 18/08/2009 at 15:41
Looks like its wraped in fazer fz6 bodywork, maybe the way to go for the new fazer?
Seen a few of these before - it is just a generic shape - it means nothing as the final design. IIRC Suzuki have some scoot patents in that look like the Honda Silver Wing. Or was it Honda that looked like the Suzuki....? Either way - it doesn't matter - the patent is the engine design (which I'd have thought would be useless as it is 'prior knowledge' anyway)
Hate to say it, but the Japanese would apply for a patent for the wheel if they thought they'd get it past the examiners. They'll patent ANYTHING they possibly can, whether they'll use it or not, and apply for patents for the tiniest, tiniest changes to things - I'm sure if it was possible they'd patent the same thing 256 times, once for each colour it was availble in....
Posted: 18/08/2009 at 17:13
Before we get too excited over a turbo diesel engine, might be worth a look what Ilmor engineering are doing with the internal combustion engine: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/11/ilmor-engineering-builds-a-5-stroke-engine/
Posted: 19/08/2009 at 08:21
Diesel/petrol economy, i hava a 3.2 v6 petrol omega. My mate has a 2.5 diesel omega (bmw engine). I get 37mpg on a run he gets 42. I have 220 horsepower he has 128. As soon as you put your foot down in the diesel or load it up and get on a motorway its struggling. Diesels only work efficiently when they are plodding around, spin up your turbo and your economy goes down your exhaust pipe. Horses for courses i think, if you want a bike to plod around the world get an oil burner if you want a bike to commute any distance or to actually enjoy riding i'd stick to a petrol anytime. Diesel scooter like a burgman maybe that meakes sense but then small diesels are not efficient.
Most diesels have a turbo spinning pretty much from tick over. Petrol turbos generally kick in when the revs go over 3K.
BHP is irrelevant as diesels are measured on torque and the modern diesels at motorway speed out perform petrol's when it comes to the 70 mph pull. The Omega diesel is old hat now my Astra produces more torque.
Posted: 19/08/2009 at 10:28
This would seriously interest me as a cummuter but I can not see a high perfomance diesel engine in a bike! I have a 2ltr Deisel Auris its great for crusing along at 70mph on the motorway and chugging along through traffic, can also pull very well. One thing that annoys me though is you do have to make sure the revs are in the right place, and the tourqe and there is loads only kicks in for about 400rpm just about 1500rpm so you have to change gear alot!
Posted: 19/08/2009 at 10:47
It's about time a motorcycle manufacturer made a decent diesel powered bike. The latest technologies in turbo's and common rail injection are crying out for a 2-wheeled version. Such a bike would end a lot of commuter problems of traffic jams, endless queues of one occupant cars, congestion charges and fuel wastage. In the real world how often do you need to race away from the traffic lights in town? - never! - and that's the only advantage petrol power has over diesel - the sprint - in all other performance areas it fails. I can hear all you petrolheads wailing now - particularly those who've never driven modern diesel engined cars - saying 'what about turbo-lag?' - two replies, 1, this occurs when you have the engine spinning at the wrong rpm for the gear driven when wanting acceleration, 2, the same occurs in your petrol engine - 40 mph in 6th - how many cogs do you drop for any performance?. - oh yes I hear those that say they have oodles of acceration from low down rpm - in their 5 litre v 8 !!Ha! (and doing 15mpg!) No - oil burners are the way to go for all round use like current trend from petrol cars to diesel.
Posted: 19/08/2009 at 13:04
We've obviously got some diesel fans in  My petrol omega has done more miles than the diesel which is owned by a fanatic mechanic friend of mine. Talk to a few caravanners and i'm sure that most have had a shock at how badly their diesels modern and old perform while towing. Exceptions are there i'm sure but i get near 30mpg towing at around the legal limit on a motorway. Back to bikes............. Lets agree some things, small diesels dont work and small turbo's don't work. Put the two together and why should it work? I've got a turbo bike and the turbo is the size of a ring doughnut it has to be this size for the 673cc engine to be able to spin it up. Multi cylinder engines work best with turbo's as they have a smoother exhaust flow, multi cylinder diesels are heavy, they have to be heavy to cope with the internal stresses and compression ratios around 22:1. This makes them far more expensive than an equivilent power petrol engine. Just how many people would be prepared to pay well over the odds for a diesel bike which would probably never have a pay back day. The enemy of all bikes is weight, nuff said ! No doubt somebody will still say they want a diesel bike and i'm sure that without any sound deadening around the engine we shall hear them (or him / her) coming from miles away.
Posted: 19/08/2009 at 23:15
No doubt somebody will still say they want a diesel bike and i'm sure that without any sound deadening around the engine we shall hear them (or him / her) coming from miles away.
Why do you think bikes are predominantly water-cooled these days? What bikes do you think do not have some sort of 'sound deadening' designed into them? The EVA Track prototype doesn't sound too bad to me.
Posted: 20/08/2009 at 07:56
Bikes are watercooled as there is around a 20% performance advantage by keeping the engine at a constant temperature. Really? Where did that gem come from? They also last a lot longer as your not cooking the oil as you would with an air cooled motor. Why would you be 'cooking your oil' with a properly designed air cooled motor? There is more to package (rads and coolant pipes) and the added weight (and cost) is not immaterial. I can only think of one manufacturer who has not moved to predominately liquid cooled motors - but it can only a matter of time before Harley have to stop the venerable air-cooled 45 degree V-twin and shift their range to a version of the Revolution motor. Sound deadening by the water jacket is just an added bonus. I disagree - reducing engine noise is the predominant reason why manufacturers moved to liquid cooling. My point, that you seem to be trying hard to avoid, was not about 'performance' or 'oil temperature' but that every bike has some sort of 'sound deadening around the engine' designed into their motors now - and liquid cooling was adopted (at least initially) by the need to reduce engine noise. An air cooled petrol engine will be quieter than a water cooled diesel engine. Probably. But, as the film clip shows, the EVA Track prototype was hardly noisy and certainly not unpleasant.
Posted: 22/08/2009 at 08:05
Air-cooled engines require a substantial amount of air pressure in order to move enough volume of air over and through a large and complex engine structure. This creates a lot of drag and that drag is called cooling drag. In addition it is very difficult to get the airflow over the engine to pass evenly by each of the cylinders. The result is uneven cooling of the cylinders that frequently results in cylinder to cylinder temperatures varying as much as 50F from each other. This substantial variation of cylinder temperatures makes fuel efficiency a much more difficult problem since the hottest cylinder will typically limit how lean the other cooler cylinders can be run hence affecting performance and fuel consumption. Run an air cooled engine without sufficient air flow and temperatures rapidly get out of hand, sit on an aircooled multicylinder motorcycle bank holiday traffic jam and it will soon start to simmer
Posted: 22/08/2009 at 09:51
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