George White goes into administration

Such a shame, sad to here that, I bought my ZX6R from them great service and one of the only bike shops to do real discounts on good kit.

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 16:48

I doubt very much this is the last we'll see of George White....

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 17:24

About time shit customer service even after buying 5 bikes

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 17:58

5 Bikes? Blimey didn't you learn after bike #2 at least? :)

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 19:32

Feel sorry for the staff,they had some genuine guys

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 20:13

Rapid expansion in a contracting market was extremely optimistic. Hopefully something can be rescued though. They aren't like Carnells were.

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 20:17

At last, how many genuine bike shops have gone to the wall at the expense of g/w under selling their products for no profit to just make a huge loss. I am very sorry for their staff but this is truly a great day for the rest of the bike trade,

Posted: 19/01/2012 at 21:54

Bike supermarkets are bad for all aspects of biking except original purchace price. I agree with Jon Terry, small caring local dedicated dealers are better every day, what about all the employees of the small shops forced to close by the latest stack em high dealer, remember City etc. A few get cheap bikes and poor service and a few get rich but generally the industry suffers.

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 02:28

Writing on the wall for a long time, everyone can offer discount if you dont pay for the goods in the first place. the backlash to this will be how it damages the suppliers, again. Frank Thomas Group , and Motrax went down owing 16million. GW is going to be huge, Sorry for the staff , but good news for independant bike shops struggling against his pile it high and sell it cheap policy. Good Ridance......

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 08:43

I'd agree with Tim there Mr Walker. Surely after the 2nd bike you'd have learnt. More fool you imo...

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 08:49

Damn. I did wonder how they sold at such low prices though.

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 13:05

JUST BOUGHT A DUCATI HOW DO I GET THE BIKE FROM THEM

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 15:09

I bought a honda. On sunday . Was expecting it delivered today. Not sure whats happening with that! Gutted

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 16:44

George White turned over 25m and lost a fair amount of money in doing so, in fact they had been losing money for some time. In any other business that level of turnover would be expected to provide a half decent profit otherwise why bother to open the doors. Unfortunately this is the reality of selling motorcycles, at there is a tiny profit margin on the full retail price and virtually zero on the discounted margins they operated on so their demise was a matter of when not if. An independant dealer who loved motorcycles might see it as a worthwhile enjoyable business to be in,however he or she would probably earn more as a plumber in truth. Customers want the best possible levels of aftercare and service and rightly so, yet unlike the car business it's expected to be at a low hourly rate so it's £ hardly worth investing in a decent workshop. Investing a large sum of money in the hope of earning a few pounds does not make any sense, and expecting that any of the major brands would be loyal to their hardworking dealers would be a mistake. I knew a Suzuki dealer who had been loyal to the brand for over 20 years - George White opened in Oxford, supplied by Suzuki despite them knowing it would wreck the existing dealers business overnight,then a few months later GW decided to close the new outlet down as, guess what.. it wasn't making any money. Perrys know how to sell cars at low prices, very used to tight margins so they dipped their toes in the bike business and opened a new Honda dealership, 18 months later and a quarter of a million pounds poorer they shut the business down.

I know of 4 independant dealers who have recently closed, couldn't wait to get out of the business, wished they'd done it a few years ago - a radical change in the motorcycle business is needed otherwise there won't be any decent dealers left.

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 19:57

Really sorry to here that, bought a bike from Swindon and they were really great , pat was the name of the salesman couldn't do enough to help. Been back a few times since and to the launch down south, best of luck to all the guys and gals who lost their jobs

Posted: 20/01/2012 at 23:28

It's a shame for the industry as a whole and i feel sorry for those that lost their jobs but personally i'm not a fan of these big multiple manufacturer dealerships. The bigger they get the customer service always suffers, sure I could have got a better deal on my last bike, and I was offered one, but for me i would always choose to pay that little bit more to buy from my local dealer The whole "stack em high, sell em cheap" thing can work but I think you have to run the business like a cash and carry warehouse operation with no fancy trimmings to make money at it. But the thing is people expected the discounted bikes but also expected the aftersales, customer service, the swanky showroom, coffee shop, retail outlet, at that all costs money, far more if your running a country wide fleet of dealerships. All I can hope for is that smaller one or two manufacturer dealerships will spring up out of this?

As for those who have just bought bikes, I read there are a skeleton staff crew still employed to complete outstanding orders etc so I suggest you try calling the Swindon head office?

Posted: 21/01/2012 at 11:40

As a long time motorcycle shop owner and ex sales representitive for a few major brands im happy!!!!

WHY?? Because when the motorcycle industry starts selling its self short and retail outlets start selling equipment for less than the "cost" price its only going to end one way!! Sadly GW hasnt just closed its self down but its taken many many other shops with it....

Has your local dealer or dealers closed in the last few years???? It was more than likely that GW was to blame... Blunt but very true... We all want value for money in our equipment but the stack it high sell it cheap approach doesnt work in our world, just look at how poor the quality is with such brands as say Alpinestars they are a shadow of there forma self as everything is now made to a budget.. Normally LOW !!!

Posted: 21/01/2012 at 11:43

I guess Ben Cope won't be getting his 848 race prep'ed at George Whites this year then?

Posted: 21/01/2012 at 11:48

i paid for a ern6 on wed teatime at the swindon branch tryed to speak with someone but no luck. hope somebody will sort something out tommoz.i was contacted on wed morn by danny but was at work and rang back later that day were he quite happiley took the outstanding balance out of my bank account. you cant tell me he didnt know something was going on then .thanks mate!

Posted: 22/01/2012 at 12:21

It it shame that this large employer closed down as roles in the bike trade few and far between. I have worked in "the trade", for Carnells and then an indepedent

The Carnell method proved that this business model does not work. When there we could buy new bikes at full cost price. This included the bike, putting it through the workshop, fuel, tax, PDI etc. A ZX6R 636 worked out at around £5500, pretty good for a brand new bike (with no mark up,no profit), then a few days latter we had a meeting with branch manager saying that new ZX6r would be retailed for £4999OTR at least a net loss of £500 per bike. On the first saturday we sold out, over 15 bikes -£7500. times that by 10 shops -£75000 IN ONE DAY. We new that the compnany would get reg and sales bonus from Kawasaki but to take such a huge hit I could see that I was doomed.

The Honda dealer did it properly, made good margins on their bikes and would not sell bikes for no money, it was pointless.

Posted: 22/01/2012 at 16:07

I remember George Whites when he actually ran the business in Manchester Road, Swindon. Bikes jammed in with good customer care and personal service. What looks to have happened is someone had taken over the business with not really knowing how to run a good personal care that bikers were used to.
We all get carried away with discount and bargains but sometimes at a cost to the smaller businesses and quality.
It is sad to see that some people who have just bought bikes etc may never see them.G
I got to see the old staff on a regular basis and it is sad to see these people losing their jobs in the current climate.
Perhaps a case of a business growing to big for its own good.
How many more will go?

Posted: 23/01/2012 at 12:31

If all dealers were required to sell new motorcycles at the manufacturer's price, as is the case with Triumph, we wouldn't see any cut-price traders like Whites (and Motorcycle City - remember them?) who simply ruin the business for everyone else.

George White was said to be making almost nothing on the sale of a new bike, relying on the manufaturer's bonus for reaching a sales target and any extras, like leathers and helmets, to make a profit. As soon as the market began to shrink they were struggling.

In the long run nobody is a winner here, certainly not the customer who suffers shoddy after-sales, sees the demise of all the smaller bike shops and is then left with nothing, nor the staff who's jobs are lost, not to mention all the creditors of George White who are left with money owing and no chance of payment..

Posted: 23/01/2012 at 13:03

well i really hope it is the last we see of them and we have a return to small dealers that really care and are for motorcyclists with great service and aftercare not massive shops without a care for anything but profit...small is best..it goes to show....

Posted: 23/01/2012 at 19:31

Sad day. Good idea, keep the prices low and sell more. Shame about the comments above from the poor independant dealers who wouldn't match the prices and are glad the opposition is gone. RRP is only 150% above wholesale prices, the normal biker (like me) who wants value for money and not to be ripped off by greedy independants will suffer once again. I blame the motorcycle press, who at the back of many magazines put the riders kit and bike blurb. Pair of gloves £150.00, winter gear, summer outfit, spring spanglies, autumn warmers, baselayers, helmets £350.00 jackets, 250.00, boots £200.00, when the average annual income isn't the sort of figures one needs to beearning to play their games. what's worse this ha
s been going on like this for a long time, let alone poor mpg figures for bikes and horrendous tyre costs. The industry needs a shake up to encourage value for money for the masses and not the fat bank accounts of the poor shop keepers (my heart bleeds for you.. not). Tough luck George White. Come back again, and hammer the industry, take the best you've learned to date and get the Chinese to make them for you, and hurry back

Posted: 23/01/2012 at 20:46

Phil Carless

You obviously don't have a clue about the retail margins in a dealers you are living in cloud cookoo land if you think the mark up is 150% i work for a dealers and they margins are not even close to this figure it's people like you that will kill the biking industry.

Posted: 23/01/2012 at 21:12

People like me?

Cloud cuckoo land?

Touchy touchy Davie Rsv4r.

Grow up lad you daren't even use your own name on here, stand up and be counted if you have an opinion, not behind the name of you crotch rocket.

Know anything about economics? Economies of scale etc? Read a book boy. Margins are tight because of the huge wages paid to those who work in non-essential services within the motorcycle industry, not the mechanics and the receptionists obviously, but the pletherer of salespeople within the dealerships, who are the vampires of the industry, sucking it dry of funds.  

Posted: 23/01/2012 at 23:45

You are talking about dealer margins not world economics, and what i am saying is they are nowhere near 150%. I see it every day guy's coming into the shop saying they can get this and that cheaper on ebay or wherever.

Where will you be when all the local dealers who are getting by and no more are all gone. And margins on the new bikes are just a joke so don't give me it's the dealers bleeding you dry ,the prices are set by the manufacturers, and george white is a prime example that you can't survive selling at such a low price and like other people have said how many dealer have gone to the wall cause of them. Sad for all the people that have lost their job but good for the industry on a whole.

And do you work in the motorcycle industry boy, how do you know what wages are paid to what ever yuou consider to be non essential services.

I don't want to have an argument all am i saying is with regard to what you said about dealer margins you are talking shit.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 00:23

If I was to measure the depth of feeling you obviously feel about my earlier comments, I would say you are all worked up over margins, so why the cloud cuckoo land people like me derisory comments then?

Firstly,I don't believe your rhetoric, as I work in retail. I think basically you don't know what you are talking about and obviously are not involved in the whole purchasing to sales process, 150% mark up is not a missnoma, especially on clothing.

Secondly, to keep the peace, I must be talking shit as you say. Thank you for enlightening me. I bow to your obvious superior knowledge. However I suggest you refrain from being such a bully, and go and learn something about management and written communication.
Opinions are what rules the world, yours are limited I think.
So there there Davie, grow up. Perhaps by starting to call yourself by a grown up name, like David, or Dave. Davie is the girls nickname for David. You are being a numpty, when the real issue is the plight of George White.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 09:07

Yes, Mr Carless is not talking sense and clearly knows nothing about the margins on a new motorcycle or the bike trade. This is what mainly caused the problem; not the margins on clothing, although they were selling leathers etc. at a cheaper price than most other shops could acquire them for.

When a "George White" comes along and begins to sell a high volume of new bikes virtually at cost, getting his income from the manufacturer's bonus for reaching a sales target, it doesn't matter what the margin was because a small dealer selling a few bikes cannot compete. So he inevitably goes out of business and when the market contracts, as it has now, the big dealer can no longer meet his targets and he goes bust too.

I can't see how that kind of trading, which Mr Carless supports, is good for motorcycling, motorcyclists or the people who work in the industry. Having a rant at another forum member and getting personal does him no credit.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 09:20

Mr carless is clearly an idiot, he talks about growing up then has a childish comment like i have a girls name. We are talking about the margins a motorcycle dealer has which i know about as i have been working in the trade for the last ten years. I don't know what margins are in other parts of retail as i don't and have not worked in this area.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 10:41

Mr Clegg, the George White model of operation encourages competition between the operators in the industry. This is ultimately the driving force of capitalism. the customer benefits from this, because they have more money to spend on ancilliary items, and if cheap enough will encourage the younger generation to take up the challenges of motorcycling as opposed to just cars. The influx and growth/acceptance of non-Japanese eastern motorcycles is testament to this.

The manufacturers hold the dealers to quota, the dealers need to buy and sell to match, with all the other costs on top it is tough to get everything right. The small dealer (of which I buy most of my bike requirements from locally, (except one or two items from Ebay, such as a new wheel), is running a business. Business is a risky venture and battered by market forces. If the problem as you suggest is the wholesale price of the new products, there can only be a few options to a dealer, get the manufacturer to adjust their price, change supplier, brand, buy Chinese, build the used part of the business, support the business with the sale of ancilliaries, cut the workforce, add brands to provide a bigger choice to the customer, add other sales lines workshop based, customising, race support or dyno facilities. it is a difficult choice, but my opinion still stands, the customer ends up paying more when the likes of a 'George white' leaves the market place.

if it is not what you want to hear, then it's a shame, margins are tight all over, not just within the motorcycling industry. In your opinion i don't know what i am talking about, ok, that's your opinion, I take it on board. i dissagree, i think I understand the issues very well, and there are a few ideas above to consider how to ensure the customer is the focus of the business model used, without flinging mud at the sad news of George White, me, you or Davie.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 10:46

This situation might be the "driving force of capitalism" but that doesn't mean we have to like it when a large dealer mops up all the trade, drives competitors out of the market-place and then goes bust, leaving a void, redundancies, a mountain of debt and nowhere for the customer to go. I would describe it as the unacceptable face of capitalism. That's why I mentioned above that the maintenance of retail prices, as in Triumph showrooms, could be a good thing. Certainly it's better to have some stability than the devil-take-the-hindmost cut-throat model we have here with GW.

Personally I would rather pay a premium to a smaller local company, keeping my money in the local economy as well as ensuring that I DO still have a local showroom to visit where I can look at bikes, get a coffee and meet friends. This applies to all aspects of life, not just motorcycles. God forbid that we all live in dead, dormitory towns with no shops and no life, doing our shopping online or giving our business to a few large predatory retailers. I think the motorcycle manufacturers' UK distribution companies are partly to blame for the current situation, putting short term gain ahead of long term stability, customer satisfaction and a strong dealer network.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 11:41

Phil Carless,
Please stop posting your nonsense, you are clearly a complete moron with no grasp on how a large dealer like george whites was operating and the circumstances leading to their administration...

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 12:47

Phil Carless,

You talk utter drivel and are no doubt a self opinionated bore.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 13:18

Phil Carless you have went from say our margins are 150% mark up to them being tight make up your mind.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 13:26

Phil Carless is symptomatic of the consumer who knows the value of price, but not the price of value.  In fact he probably wouldn't recognise 'value' if you dressed it up as a kipper and slapped him across the face with it.

150% margin on motorcycles!  LOL!!!

The margin on some clothing/accessories etc may well approach that level just as in other area's of clothing and other consumer goods, but it stands to reason that for a market that is relatively small as in motorcycle clothing it would have to be that to justify buying the stock and sitting on it for months until it sells.  In any case, purchases such as these are long term ones and I'd rather spend £300 on a protective jacket, or helmet that will actually earn it's money than on a pair of 'fashionable' denims.

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 13:28

With the exception of not going bust the scenario played out in this cases is mirrored identically by another retail sector very close to my heart, that of general food retail.

Enormous retailers holding almost the entire market between them and ruthlessly battering suppliers and competitors out of the market place with loss leading price cuts, land grabs, supplier funded promotions etc etc.

Yes, I'm talking as a village shop owner and independent food and drink retailer, listening nearly every day to people like Mr Carless who believe that buying all their groceries in a supermarket then moaning to me about my prices is good fun and that I must have pots of money because I run a business.

When my gross margin hits 33% (150% markup) then I'll be a very happy bunny, never mind my net margin. Does he not think that the independent motorcycle retailers might therefore view the loss of a major competitor as a chance to even the balance a little, as I would?

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 13:33

Phil, I'm guessing you don't and have never worked in the motorcycle trade.... Sadly despite your obvious understanding of capitalism and market forces you dont have a clue what's going on in our world... I hope you join Goerge Whites and disappear too as we dont need or tolerate fools

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 13:34

As value is a subjective term and kippers and slapping faces is all you can come up with then Chizzle don't bother.

Charles, as you know nothing of my shopping habits, I wouldn't moan to you about your prices, I wouldn't shop there. as you both have personalised the issues of price, then it must burn like mad when you have a sale and everyone goes looking for the bargains. That in itself supports my pricing comments.

As far as 150% mark up is concerned, it may not be on motorcycles themselves, (see my earlier comment about clothing), but agreed that clothing can make that margin. So, what's your argument?

Yes I am a consumer. value for money equates to what I wish to pay for goods, and as it is my money I still say it is a sad day the George Whites is having trouble as I will have one less place to visit when I want some new gear for my wife. My kids have all shopped at George Whites and got some very good clothing at reduced rates. I will now shop at Ghostbikes and any other company who puts my needs first when attracting my money. Just because a good is termed cheap, does not mean it does not suffice and is not fit for purpose. I think you argue that I believe value is measured in money, this is not the case. George White's had good knowledgable staff, were curtious, the places were clean, and they were selling goods at a reduced rate., So as a consumer, I think I have a point. I reiterate I am saddenned by the negative views expressed earlier, not only to myself, but also the bandwagon roll of bad feeling to a company I believe was trying to attract customers and give them better options to buy. Stil. you can't please all the people all the time. 

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 14:02

As value is a subjective term and kippers and slapping faces is all you can come up with then Chizzle don't bother.

Charles, as you know nothing of my shopping habits, I wouldn't moan to you about your prices, I wouldn't shop there. as you both have personalised the issues of price, then it must burn like mad when you have a sale and everyone goes looking for the bargains. That in itself supports my pricing comments.

As far as 150% mark up is concerned, it may not be on motorcycles themselves, (see my earlier comment about clothing), but agreed that clothing can make that margin. So, what's your argument?

Yes I am a consumer. value for money equates to what I wish to pay for goods, and as it is my money I still say it is a sad day the George Whites is having trouble as I will have one less place to visit when I want some new gear for my wife. My kids have all shopped at George Whites and got some very good clothing at reduced rates. I will now shop at Ghostbikes and any other company who puts my needs first when attracting my money. Just because a good is termed cheap, does not mean it does not suffice and is not fit for purpose. I think you argue that I believe value is measured in money, this is not the case. George White's had good knowledgable staff, were curtious, the places were clean, and they were selling goods at a reduced rate., So as a consumer, I think I have a point. I reiterate I am saddenned by the negative views expressed earlier, not only to myself, but also the bandwagon roll of bad feeling to a company I believe was trying to attract customers and give them better options to buy. Still. you can't please all the people all the time. 

Posted: 24/01/2012 at 14:02