MotoGP: 600cc four stroke plan confirmed

Boo, and indeed... hiss 
Posted: 27/06/2008 17:24

This seems so weird, I just don't understand. I'm not a luddite, I accept that the 2-strokes no-longer represent the pinnacle of technology, but, when you've got a 600cc class racing in WSB and then the top-level MotoGP bikes are 800cc, then there's going to be hardly any difference. With the introduction of 4-strokes to MotoGP's middle class, they could have taken the chance to do something radical; like introduce a 450cc class, where any engine configuration was allowed. That would move road-bikes on. This just seems like a shadow of what they've been doing in the WSB paddock for years. Are all the WSS teams going to up sticks and move into GP's now? Doesn't seem like a well-thought out plan, although I'm sure it has been..
Posted: 27/06/2008 17:27

But it will help the development of 600cc road bikes so it cant be all bad.

Posted: 27/06/2008 17:30

absolute farce,what are dorna trying to do, ruin the whole motgp show !!!!

garnd prix racing has always been anout prototype racing not mass produced bikes from japan. granted the 250 2 stroke class isnt great but why not keep it at 250cc and change to 4strokes as kawasaki have just done with their zx250 and im sure i read that yamaha and honda have a 250 4stroke lined up.that would be in keeping with where small modern bikes are heading

Posted: 27/06/2008 17:33

where have all the middleweight sportsbikes gone?  Since Aprilia binned the RS250, we haven't had a decent 250 on the market until Kawasaki caught on.  All this will do is concentrate more manufacturer resources on making small over powerful sports bikes.  I think 450 fourstroke is the way to go as "Admin" suggests.
Posted: 27/06/2008 17:47

It's happened cause Mr Honda wants it that way
Posted: 27/06/2008 18:05

We had the taster class to this years ago in the Thundersport class i think it was. Simple thing is, honda do not want to do two strokes, what are Aprilia and KTM to do now that they dominate the two stroke classes. THe easiest thing to do would be to just have over the counter 250 strokers with no factory bikes or support and run a 450cc fourstroke in the same class if they want to introduce four stroke teams. With 800's costing more than the GDP of a south American country, who is going to buy and run these bikes?
Posted: 27/06/2008 18:14

Robbob wrote (see)

But it will help the development of 600cc road bikes so it cant be all bad.

that's what world super sport is for.
Posted: 27/06/2008 18:57

Admin wrote (see)

This seems so weird, I just don't understand. I'm not a luddite, I accept that the 2-strokes no-longer represent the pinnacle of technology, but, when you've got a 600cc class racing in WSB and then the top-level MotoGP bikes are 800cc, then there's going to be hardly any difference. With the introduction of 4-strokes to MotoGP's middle class, they could have taken the chance to do something radical; like introduce a 450cc class, where any engine configuration was allowed. That would move road-bikes on. This just seems like a shadow of what they've been doing in the WSB paddock for years. Are all the WSS teams going to up sticks and move into GP's now? Doesn't seem like a well-thought out plan, although I'm sure it has been..

got to agree with everything you say,i'm sure it boils down to money somewhere down the line. i notice a few of the big names in 250's are threating to withdraw.the problem is that moto gp and the motocross circus is all run by the italians.i'm not going into details as i don't like sleeping with the fishes.
Posted: 27/06/2008 19:01

  Maybe it would be to expensive for teams that don't compete in all classes but i would have liked to seen a 400 twins class and 200 singles, engine development technology could then be shared across all classes.

Posted: 27/06/2008 21:22

wavydave wrote (see)

Robbob wrote (see)

But it will help the development of 600cc road bikes so it cant be all bad.

that's what world super sport is for.

I think you will find that development in prototype racing will be far better than the slightly altering of existing road going bikes.

Posted: 27/06/2008 22:00

There was talk of using production motors in prototype frames/swingarms, if they try and move forward with this then I think Flammini will have something to say about it as they hold the rights to world production racing.

Dorna have sort of set a precedent a few years ago when they booted out WCM for running an R1 engine, all be it modified, but they said it was too close to the production model.

In short - Dorna do prototype racing, FG Sport do production racing.

Posted: 28/06/2008 00:34

Marko wrote (see)

We had the taster class to this years ago in the Thundersport class i think it was. Simple thing is, honda do not want to do two strokes, what are Aprilia and KTM to do now that they dominate the two stroke classes. THe easiest thing to do would be to just have over the counter 250 strokers with no factory bikes or support and run a 450cc fourstroke in the same class if they want to introduce four stroke teams. With 800's costing more than the GDP of a south American country, who is going to buy and run these bikes?

KTM did float the idea that could supply 250's at a decent price to all (similar to the rookies program)

I can't see the solution they have adopted is going to make the class cheaper, quite the opposite.

Posted: 28/06/2008 00:50

Wavydave as you know Ducati have a 400 for the Jap market, Aprilia have a 450,

I'll have a word with my man in Palermo

Posted: 28/06/2008 20:37

Who cares bbc2 wont show it anyway
Posted: 29/06/2008 09:21

size12 wrote (see)

Who cares bbc2 wont show it anyway

No, but BBCi will
Posted: 30/06/2008 11:46

Well, everybody thought that when MotoGP went to fourstrokes that WSB is going to die! Just the opposite have happened and WSB are now more interesting to watch! That is why they want to move as close to WSB as they can.

I predict the next move will be to scrap the 125's in favour of the 250cc fourstrokes!

I also think however that the 250's should have been replaced by a 400 class, as the current 600 street supersports are already developed to a very high level and with the current world fuel situation, developing the 400 class could have been the right thing to do!

Posted: 01/07/2008 12:31

i think it a shame as the most interesting racing at the motogp for me is the 250 class, the top class now is becoming a bit of a procession, (after the first 2 laps) the best racing period at the minute is in Superbikes be it WSB or BSB

i think that moto gp are going down the wrong route, if it is 4 stroke they want then 400 cc (replace 250) and 200cc (replace 125) surely this would help the street bike market with new ideas for smaller capacity race replicas

Posted: 01/07/2008 12:46

Robbob wrote (see)

But it will help the development of 600cc road bikes so it cant be all bad.

So you think 18000 rpm road bikes are the way forward ? Thats just dumb.

We'll just get more of the same for japan, which is all they are interested in - quantity, not quality.

And another thing - just like the 2-stroke gp bikes did absolutely NOTHING for road bikes, so will all the 4-stroke gp bikes. Thats not the point.

The point is the technical spectacle, which seems to be completely lost on the likes of the modern honda company, who think they know what the riders want better than the riders themselves. Complete bunch of bigheads.

Posted: 01/07/2008 21:28

wavydave wrote (see)

got to agree with everything you say,i'm sure it boils down to money somewhere down the line. i notice a few of the big names in 250's are threating to withdraw.the problem is that moto gp and the motocross circus is all run by the italians.i'm not going into details as i don't like sleeping with the fishes.

I can see their point. 2-3 million for a 250Gp bike and the manufactures will have to build their own prototype engines, so I am thinking they will be a far cry from the engines in a CBR600

Dorna are trying to reduce the cost for the teams as well.

Posted: 02/07/2008 14:13

Does anyone seriously think this class will get any entries?

Honda issued a statement saying they thought Dorna would be better off seeing if anyone wants a 600cc gp class.

The costs are going to be astronomic.

Personally I can't see Honda, Yamaha or Suzuki wanting to get into it when MotoGP costs so much. Aprilia have already said that's it for them they're going to WSBK as have KTM.

I think its sour grapes from Dorna who didn't like anyone but them making money out of MotoGP.

Personally I shall really miss the 250 class.

Posted: 03/07/2008 17:46