Scottish bike paramedics to beat congestion

Good idea

Posted: 23/10/2008 at 14:39

+1,definately

If you're broke down in heavy traffic the RAC or AA send a bike, a high speed bike-mounted paramedic has to be the best idea in road safety anyone's actioned this year.

Posted: 23/10/2008 at 15:22

Its a good idea but only if the back up is fully in place.If they are targeted to the "most serious" cases these really need to be in hospital which will require an ambulance.Call me a cynic but I bet the money for these bikes and riders has been siphoned off from the rest of the job,and they are primarily to enable the powers that be to say how well they are meeting government targets regarding arrival times for the ambulance service.A bit like having the icing on the cake,but half the cake being missing.

Posted: 23/10/2008 at 17:36

its not a new idea surely?  We have bike paramedics in the south. 

And like any solo crew - there is supposed to be a full crew as close behind as poss, but it doen't always happen

Posted: 23/10/2008 at 20:15

My guess is its simply to meet the 7 min target or whatever it is. Will have an instant effect on targets but will it really be as good as simply having more ambulances.

edit: Just read Biggles post. Thats what i meant.

Posted: 23/10/2008 at 20:24

any immeadiate response has to be good.  As the article says - they carry enough kit to stabilise under a full crew arrives.  Personally - if I needed medical help, one person and basic kit would be heaps better than lying there waiting for a full crew that could take 15 - 30 - 45 mins?

Even a decent first aider on scene is better than nothing - increases the survival chances

also - if they are for full paramedics, then I would guess they will be carrying useful drugs too !!  (some of the old Technician crews were limited on qualifications to dispense/give some drugs)

Posted: 23/10/2008 at 20:30

I was speaking with a paramedic recently and he was telling me about the "idea" proposed for paramedics on bikes (in Scotland that is) and he himself was really keen ,however the paramedics themselves won,t be put through their test by any government departments /the nhs ,but have to pay for it themselves as well as provide their own leathers /boots /helmets ,etc . The bikes to be used are old ones that the police no longer use ,so effectively no nhs money is being "siphoned off" as Biker Biggles suspects ,except from the pockets of the paramedics to sit their test and provide their own riding gear  :if the service is to be put into action ,surely paramedics shouldn,t have to be out of pocket for such or at least be subsidised

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 00:46

Stickybabe wrote (see)

I was speaking with a paramedic recently and he was telling me about the "idea" proposed for paramedics on bikes (in Scotland that is) and he himself was really keen ,however the paramedics themselves won,t be put through their test by any government departments /the nhs ,but have to pay for it themselves as well as provide their own leathers /boots /helmets ,etc . The bikes to be used are old ones that the police no longer use ,so effectively no nhs money is being "siphoned off" as Biker Biggles suspects ,except from the pockets of the paramedics to sit their test and provide their own riding gear  :if the service is to be put into action ,surely paramedics shouldn,t have to be out of pocket for such or at least be subsidised

I would have thought the Trust would have a duty of care to put any non motorcyclist through  the relevant tests.  The Turst would have to arrange and pay for the Blue Light training anyway.  As for kit - again, I would imagine it will fall under workwear - again, duty of care, teh right equipment for the job.  Might be different in Scotland, but can't see how.  I think down here they like to ask people who already have licences to train on blues, but not really sure

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 08:14

Yeah , i would have thought so too ,but according to the paramedic  ,no funding was being offered / made available by the trust here ( the West coast of Scotland) and he asked me what kind of costs were involved for him to do his direct access ,etc . Perhaps ,it,s somewhat of a "postcode lottery" in that different trusts do pay either full or part costs ??

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 09:18

So if the NHS won't pay for test's etc, that means there will be inexperienced riders on heavy powerful machines riding at full tilt to get to an emergency

Ummm

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 09:28

Bloody good idea, quite obvious once it's been done. 

all they need now is fire engine bikes and they'll have the set.

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 09:28

"The bikes to be used are old ones the police no longer use"

Hopefully not the Pans the old bill dumped over the weaving issue and subsequent fatalities?

As for the paramedics paying their own way,it is quite normal for employers to require the correct qualifications(Paramedic with a bike license and relevant experience)but quite wrong to require them to provide their own personal protective equipement.

Aside from the details of the money though,its the government target mentality that generally turns basically good ideas like this into cynical operations to tick boxes and satisfy bean counters.If only the bean counters could be made to go out and work on the shop floor instead of driving their filing cabinets around an office for a living.

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 09:33

definitely wierd. I think he should enquire more! They may expect him to take his DAS and then they'll do the rest - which kind of fits with what I know of round here where they put people who already have licences on the bikes after further training. I would think they will have to supply Trust standard kit once he's employed as a bike paramedic, but maybe it is a Scottish thing?

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 09:36

Mornin folks,

The Nine bikes arrived at Sheildhall station about 3 months ago to get stickered up and equiped, as for the equipment issue the service do have to provide the correct gear for you, helmets,leathers etc..there is no way they would let you work without the proper gear/ training. There are a lot of bikers already in the service so i dont think too many will need trained up(saves money not having to give them full training)It's a great idea but sometimes the ambulance arrives before the bike, just depends where they both are in relation to the call. 

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 09:47

I think he should enquire more (exactly what i said to him) .

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 10:02

Thanks Dooly : i guess the guy was talking through a hole in his head then  (which wasn,t his mouth).

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 10:07

Stickybabe wrote (see)

Thanks Dooly : i guess the guy was talking through a hole in his head then  (which wasn,t his mouth).

He might have been mistaken or slightly bullshittin, but i cant imagine the service taking a chance over being sued coz of equipment failure due to the rider wearing a shitty helmet or cheap trousers. The fuckers get you to sign off on every bit of training you have so they can say "we trained you to use it" and there hands are clear if you fuck up. Basically they would be keeping themselves in the clear by providing you with the right equipment/gear.

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 10:27

Was on the news last night, the guy they were talking too was a biker who happens to be a paramedic and was signed up for this new venture.

The idea seems to be that in places like Edinburgh/Glasgow where there can be substantial congestion a bike can get a first responder to the patient a lot quicker than an ambulance (or one of the current cars/4x4s used by first response units) can get there.  Seems a good plan to me - and they have the basic cardiac drugs, defibs, oxygen etc all in the panniers so it won't be a case of them turning up to have a cuppa and wait for the cavelry to arrive

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 12:10

We've  had a number of para-medics on bikes in Hull for a few years. According to one I know, they were sent off to do some of the police rider training, although not the full pursuit stuff, as the people they're after aren't normally trying to  get away. They also get their clothing paid for but are not permitted to take their company vehicle home at the end of their shift.

It was him who warned me about the unmarked police Hyabusa that was out locally.

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 13:17

Biker Biggles wrote (see)

Hopefully not the Pans the old bill dumped over the weaving issue and subsequent fatalities?

Doolybhoy wrote (see)

The Nine bikes arrived at Sheildhall station about 3 months ago .....

Maybe Doolybhoy will let on what they are but I can see no reason for them not to be Pans, as someone else said, they are not doing high speed pursuits, just trying to get through the traffic a little quicker than an ambulance might

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 22:12

There was a video clip of an interview on the Scotland part of the BBC news website - the bike looked like a (new) R1200GT (or whatever the boxer engined tourer is called).

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 22:52

Jack wrote (see)

Biker Biggles wrote (see)

Hopefully not the Pans the old bill dumped over the weaving issue and subsequent fatalities?

Doolybhoy wrote (see)

The Nine bikes arrived at Sheildhall station about 3 months ago .....

Maybe Doolybhoy will let on what they are but I can see no reason for them not to be Pans, as someone else said, they are not doing high speed pursuits, just trying to get through the traffic a little quicker than an ambulance might

From what ive heard there BM's, dunno if it's because of the pans probs or they got a good rent deal, dunno but it can only be better for the public if help arrives sooner than an RRU.

Posted: 24/10/2008 at 23:38

<img title="Click image to view full size." src="http://www.visordown.com/members/images/171079/Gallery/1420.png" width="350" height="269" />


Love it!

Not thinking of joining the bike unit yourself DB? Sounds like a sweet deal, doing the job you love from the back of a company paid beemer?

(Just re-read that, sounds a bit flippant, not meant that way at all.)

Posted: 25/10/2008 at 13:42

Doolybhoy wrote (see)

From what ive heard there BM's, ....

Probably are BMs, sadly the pics shown here and on the BBC news site are probably from a library

Posted: 25/10/2008 at 15:56

Just to put the record straight! After extensive testing 9 BMWs have been bought, the old Pans will be put out to grass. No, it's not a new idea there have been bike Paramedics around for about 20 years. In Scotland it can be a permanent job, not just a secondment.

Scottish Ambulance policy is to recruit keen bikers to this role, not just train up any Paramedic. Riders are trained by Police Instructors.

You should also know that there's a group of bikers and bike riding managers steering the way forward and they are being given the very best of kit.

Best place to see bikes is around Shieldhall, Glasgow, but they are all around central Scotland.

Hope we never need one, but good to know they are there!

Posted: 03/11/2008 at 19:06

I am 18 years old, live in Glasgow, have a car licence and bike licence and I am interested in becoming a bike paramedic.

I am at college trying to gain some more highers for the moment as you can't apply to be an ambulance technitian until you're 21. I will also need to do my category C test.

Between now and when I reach 21 I am going to join the IAM and do their test. I am going to volunteer with the St. Andrew's Ambulace group as well.

Does anyone on here have any information about what I should be doing to give myself the best chance of getting a job as an ambulance technitian with my ultimate goal being becoming a bike paramedic.

I understand that you need alot of experience to become a bike paramedic because you'll be pretty much the first person on the scene and will need to know what you're doing so I know I'll need to start out down the standard paramedic route.

I know Doolybhoy said they're about the shieldhall area. Do you know if there's going to be an event showing the bikes or the riders off or anything as I'd like to go?

Posted: 04/11/2008 at 00:28

It may change but at the moment:

Full clean licence (inc C1,D1), over 21, 2 years varied driving experience. They like a record of community involvement 1st aid, youth groups etc. Good general standard of education. You'll have to pass a fitness test, memory test thingy and an interview. May have to start on non-emergency tier first. Check with SAS Personnel Dept in Edinburgh.

Posted: 04/11/2008 at 18:21