'I believe they should be able to share our bus lanes successfully and safely' - Boris Johnson
From 5 January, motorcyclists will able to ride in the lanes for an 18-month trial period. Transport for London (TfL) said it hoped the measure would cut accident rates and traffic in the capital. Pedal cyclists, who already use the lanes, have been against the proposals claiming it would not improve safety or reduce congestion. The change will only apply to TfL bus lanes. Motorcyclists have been advised to make sure they know which lanes are open to them.
Mr Johnson, said: "I have long been staggered that while motorcyclists can use bus lanes in many other cities and some of our boroughs they were not allowed to use the TfL routes that criss-cross the capital. One of the ways we can ease congestion is by encouraging more people to get on their bike, whether pedal or powered, and I believe they should be able to share our bus lanes successfully and safely. "
The idea was one of Mr Johnson's manifesto pledges, and in June this year the London Cycling Campaign (LCC) presented the mayor with a 3,000-name petition asking him to reconsider the plans.
In a letter to the mayor, LCC's chief executive Koy Thomson said: "While we would support measures to make motorcycling safer, such as a 20mph speed limit, there is no clear environmental, safety or congestion reason for allowing motorcycles into bus lanes."
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 03:40
This is good news. After the shock last week that that plonker Clarkson was seen on a bike we needed some good news. Let Clarkson stick to playing with his toy cars and leave us bikers alone. We don't need him when we've got Ace Plonker Johnson on our side.
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 11:55
Fantastic news.. Although I have had the pleasure of using the Finchley road bus lane for years as this has been open to motorcycles for some time.. Now having the baker street section included makes it that little bit better.
I think that for this to work for everyone we all need to make sure that we are mindful of the cyclists. I know, I know, they are not mindful of us or any other road user come to that, pulling out without looking, going through red etc etc, but that will not stop them from looking for ways to have us stopped from using the bus lanes after the 18 month trials.
So be careful of cyclists and all you scooter riders...Hmmm maybe I will stop there
Live long and prosper!!
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 12:17
This will shut the MCN up. What on earth are they going to whine about now?
Boris is a conviction politician, and underneath the bumbling exterior, there is an astute brain.
My commute into Central London doesn't involve going along many roads with bus lanes anyway, but every little thing helps, and I suppose it will make getting through Wandsworth a little easier.
Now, is there a map of which bus lanes belong to TfL and which don't?
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 13:43
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 14:14
Have always liked how Boris operates and now he's actually acting on his promises.
Politicians of all parties : please make note. Honour your pledges.
Boris rules, OK!
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 16:10
The Cyclists lobby are up in arms and are urging members to send emails of complaint to Boris. Follow this link and PLEASE send him messages of Congratulations of Common sense!
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 17:17
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 17:37
When is someone going to shut these self -righteous self-centered pedal cyclists lobbies up? Surely ANYbody can see that the use of bus lanes by motorcyclists is going to decrease congestion, which should be what everybody should be aiming for,including them. And for them to claim that there will be an increase in accidents where there is no evidence whatever is misguided and selfish in the extreme.
Well done Boris - you have done what so few politicians do - kept to your word!
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 17:52
Gooza wrote (see)
The Cyclists lobby are up in arms and are urging members to send emails of complaint to Boris. Follow this link and PLEASE send him messages of Congratulations of Common email@example.com
I just emailed Boris!! Sure I wont get anything back but what heck.. Are thee any forums that the cycliss are chatting on that we give input on?
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 20:41
I've just read the miserable little whinge from the London Cycling Campaign, eager for us grown ups not to use bus lanes. The miserable little worms got up a 3,000 sig petition to try to stop this.
I think it's time for a petition of our own against the loser-cyclists. Here's what it should include:
1. Compulsary 3rd party insurance.
2. Compulsary number plates.
3. Prohibition on chaining cycles to lamp posts, causing obstruction on the pavement.
4. Enforcement of the law about not riding through red traffic lights.
5. Immediate £200 fine for riding on the pavement.
6. Compulsary fitting of an audible warning device, e.g. a bell.
Those miserable bunch of worms.
Posted: 28/10/2008 at 22:35
LOL - I cycle, I motorcycle, I drive.
Let's rise above the mud flinging...not all car drivers are bad. Not all cyclists are bad, not all riders are bad.
That's not to say that they are all good either, but they will always be around, like em or hate em!
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 11:23
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 12:06
Grae wrote (see)
Frem puts his finger right on the button - let cyclists whinge WHEN they have contributed to the cost of roads, meters, lampposts etc for dogs to pee against and them to attach their chains to: and above all compulsory insurance so they can be sued too when they knock people over on the pavements,crash into cars and jump red lights and licences to lose if they do so!PS I ride /drive all 3!! - but love motorbikes best.
So there you have it, cyclist do contribute to the cost of roads (those who own cars and/or Motorbikes)
Those that don't, then yes, let them whinge so we can ignore them!
And agreed, I didn't even jump in my car (as tempting as it was) depsite there being 2 inches of snow outside the door and dragged the bike out the garage.
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 12:21
Enough with the 'self-righteous pedal cyclist' nonsense. I've ridden a pushbike as a commuter tool, hobby and as a racing cyclist (going back a few years there) for years. Yes, there are a fair few erseholes ridding pushbikes on pavements, through red lights and whatnot and I'd be in full support of such types being chained to the lamp-posts with their bikes, stripped, tarred and feathered. I haven't really met any truly 'self righteous' cyclists in all that time though.
Maybe it's a London thing - there's a lot of strange stuff goes on down there!
Sounds like a sensible initiative though and as a non-self-righteous cyclist I've often wondered, even before having a bike licence, why motorbikes weren't allowed to use the lanes.
Just be careful when pulling out to get past the stopped buses though guys!
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 12:49
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 12:51
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 12:53
Most bus lanes in Sunderland were re-labelled "no car lanes" a couple of years ago. It works better than buses only as far as I can see. Vans, taxi's, etc are also allowed to use them and therefore speeds up traffic flow.
Not until road tax is payable on bicycles, should cyclists comments be given any serious consideration on this. Their viewpoint is not about congestion, being environmentally friendly or anything else, it's purely selfish so they can continue to ride along not having to pay attention to whats around them. Look at Holland for example where cyclists will just pull out into the road or use zebra crossings and think pedestrians should give way to them.
BTW, there is some ancient law that states all bicycles used on the roads must have a bell fitted. My bro's a copper and fined one of the arrogant little fuckers for this, just for a laugh.
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 13:06
All this always brings the knuckle draggers out.
Only been a couple of sensible posts (I'll let you guess which ones) on this thread, the rest, with suspiciously low post counts, just want to cause problems.
There are arsehole cyclists, drivers and even motorbikers. Personally, I as a cyclist try to keep out of buslanes because they are full of crap. I'll stick to using all of the roads I am entitled to (not licenced to), which means everything except m ways and a few duals.
And if you are riding a motorbike in a buslane, I do expect that you will stick to the 3 foot rule, theres a good chap - I know I will. And if filtering, keep an eye on the mirrors for pushbikes - I hate being held up
Oh, the last posters PC brother must be a twat. Glad my taxes are going to good use
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 16:04
I have a "suspiciously low post count" because I'd heard this forum was too "cliquey" and too ready to have a go at newcomers so I'd never bothered even having a look until a few days ago. I apologise that I wasn't aware that I had to spend my life on the internet to be entitled to an opinion.
Also, the comment about my brother, he knew the bike was stolen but couldn't prove it at the time. Therefore, they stuck on the most obscure bike related charge they could think of, partly to have a laugh at a well known scumbags expense and partly in the "disruption of criminal activities" as I believe they like to put it. Apparently, thats part of their job description I'm told.
The point I was making was simply in support of Frem's post suggesting compulsory 3rd party insurance and registration plates as well as audible warning devices because cyclists are no more above the law than anyone else. All good ideas in theory, even if nearly impossible to implement but I suppose he also spends more time on a bike than behind a PC so his viewpoint isn't valid in your opinion either.
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 22:48
Craig76 wrote (see)
I must admit I thought the comment about "low post count" was about me - it was my first post. Perhaps I am not as loquacious as others, but everyone starts somewhere. I was piqued by the LCC's petition and I wanted to have my say.
Reading chewa's post makes me question his motives.
What exactly is "suspicious" about a low post count to the great detective Chewa?
After how many posts, on the International Chewa's Scale of Suspiciousness, are we mere mortals allowed to make a comment? How would we reach that level without posting? A catch 22, surely?
Who appointed Master of the Rolls Lord Chewa to find when posts are sensible or otherwise?
Who appointed His Lord Chief Justice Chewa to find when a post is there "to cause problems"?
Now, chewa, If you ride in a bus lane or anywhere else, please adhere to the Highway Code. It applies to you as a road user. Please stop at traffic lights. Please stop at Zebra crossings when there are pedestrians on them or waiting. Please don't ride on the pavement. If you do those things you are entitled to ask (not tell or expect) that us grown ups on powered two wheelers to keep a sensible distance from you. If I am filtering and I am holding you up it means you are filtering too quickly. Please slow down to a sensible speed because you are riding dangerously.
Just because you have made 544 posts doesn't give you any standing (in my book) to be nasty to other posters. I noted you put two personal comments in your post, the first about "knuckle draggers", the second about a specific poster. This seems unbecoming for somebody as apparently sage and generous as you.
Posted: 29/10/2008 at 23:19
Have to disagree Craig,
I've been on here maybe a couple of weeks and have found the majority of the 'regulars' to be extremely knowledgable and helpful to a new biker like me. Of course, there are 'cliques' and will be anywhere if that is how one should choose to define a group of people who have known each other, either in person or via a website such as this, for some time. In any such situation, newcomers may be welcomed but a full acceptance and openness will normally take some time.
Attacks, whether personal (someone's brother) or sweeping (cyclists in general) will always invite counter attack and add little to the debate. Like everything in life, one should be prepared to take as good as one gives (me being hung by my own petard on the spelling and grammar debate as a perfect example!)
Posted: 30/10/2008 at 08:37
Sorry if I've offended your sensibilities, but I just find it a bit strange that one of someone's first posts is on an issue like this, particularly as it comes up again and again and again and again, and the same boring incorrect arguments are used. Trolls tend not to participate in any other types of thread (for example ones about motorbikes) so if I've misjudged youthen do accept my abject apologies.
"My bro's a copper and fined one of the arrogant little fuckers for this, just for a laugh."
So the guy was a thief not a cyclist or did he steal to satisfy his cycling habit?
I quite agree with your comment that cyclists are not above the law. Quite happy for police to enforce the law, but then I do not go through red lights, don't ride on pavements, stop at crossings have £200 plus worth of lights (and a £1.99 bell)
The law in this country does not require any insurance or registration plates, both of which would be virtually impossible to police and negate the multitude of benefits cycling brings, we'd all end up as blobs and our carbon footprint would be huge.
By the way my 544 posts are over about 7 years, and I spend 2 hours a day on one sort of bike or another.
Posted: 30/10/2008 at 16:46
I've never had a bell on any of my pushbikes since I was about 10. Given the volume of the normal cycle bell and where you'd have to mount one on a drop handlebar bike (top of the bars) compared to where your hands will normally be (on the hoods normally, drops sometimes, top occasionaly too to be fair) I've always found a politely shouted 'behind' or 'excuse me' or somesuch, followed by a pleasant 'thank you' as you pass to be more effective. A more frantically and less friendly shouted 'getty fuk ya eejit' is often reserved for the car drivers who think that doing there utmost to overtake you before turning left is a good idea.
Posted: 30/10/2008 at 16:54
Frem wrote (see)
I must admit I thought the comment about "low post count" was about me - it was my first post. Perhaps I am not as loquacious as others, but everyone starts somewhere. I was piqued by the LCC's petition and I wanted to have my say.Reading chewa's post makes me question his motives. What exactly is "suspicious" about a low post count to the great detective Chewa?
Please see point above about Trolls and thetype of post they make. Just surprising that low posters jump in on discussions which have been done to death before, but usually involve having a go at another group.
Who appointed Master of the Rolls Lord Chewa to find when posts are sensible or otherwise?Who appointed His Lord Chief Justice Chewa to find when a post is there "to cause problems"?
Who appointed His Lord Chief Justice Chewa to find when a post is there "to cause problems"?
Please see above - I said there were some sensible posts - I'm entitled to that opinion, surely? I'm in the wrong legal jurisdiction to be Lord Chief justice, but thanks for the promotion.
If you had read some previous threads on this you'd see my views on miscreant cyclists (and bikers)
I'll bow to your "grown up" superior knowledge of PTW's - after all I've only been riding bikes (PTW's) for 30 odd years and cycle 5000 miles a year.
I filter on a pushbike at a safe speed, which is generally faster than a safe speed on a motorbike (mass and width play a part as you will no doubt know) So if I'm behind you - use good obs and merge in to let me by - ok?
Posted: 30/10/2008 at 16:56
Good news, but why doesn't Gordon Brown and his cronies make it a general ruling?
Go to Colchester, OK to ride in the bus lane. Go 20 miles or so to Ipswich NOT OK to ride in the bus lane.
Or . . . is it the other way around - can't remember.
Posted: 30/10/2008 at 17:00
The reason this is my first post is because it was in the email sent out in the bugsplat newsletter.
The thief mentioned uses stolen bikes to go about his business so you can call him what you whatever you like. The point I was making was only to illustrate there are laws regarding bicycles that are often disregarded either through choice or ignorance.
As I've said previously, all traffic except private cars are allowed in the majority of bus lanes where I live (Sunderland). It keeps the traffic flowing for the most part. Previously, these lanes were buses only and led to huge tailbacks in traffic which kind of defeats the idea of being environmentally friendly.
Durham has a different ruling where lanes are allocated to buses at certain times of the day. Durham have made major investments in park & ride schemes so they are actively encouraging people to use the buses rather than just to be a pain in the arse in the hope people will leave the cars at home. It works with the exception of some car drivers not paying attention to road markings/signs displaying the bus lane days/times and sharply changing lanes without warning. That's another issue in itself though.
I have no problem with cyclists using bus lanes. However, they have to bear in mind they're not the only road users at risk of being wiped out by cagers not looking any further than 10ft past their bonnet. The same goes for cycle lanes on footpaths. We've all seen it, cyclists shouting abuse at pedestrians who have walked on to the cycle lane to get past another pedestrian or because they've been too busy texting, etc, etc. It's really its just about observation, being aware that you're not the only person/group entitled to be there and expecting someone to do something unexpected and even blatently stupid. Any road user, cyclist, motorcyclist or car driver who can't do that shouldn't be on the road.
I always let cyclists past if there's a gap they can get through that I can't. Occasionally find that once the traffic starts flowing again, I catch them and they're holding me up. Swings and roundabouts really.
Posted: 01/11/2008 at 12:50
The reason this is my first post is because it was in the email sent out in the bugsplat newsletter. The thief mentioned uses stolen bikes to go about his business so you can call him what you whatever you like. The point I was making was only to illustrate there are laws regarding bicycles that are often disregarded either through choice or ignorance.As I've said previously, all traffic except private cars are allowed in the majority of bus lanes where I live (Sunderland). It keeps the traffic flowing for the most part. Previously, these lanes were buses only and led to huge tailbacks in traffic which kind of defeats the idea of being environmentally friendly.Durham has a different ruling where lanes are allocated to buses at certain times of the day. Durham have made major investments in park & ride schemes so they are actively encouraging people to use the buses rather than just to be a pain in the arse in the hope people will leave the cars at home. It works with the exception of some car drivers not paying attention to road markings/signs displaying the bus lane days/times and sharply changing lanes without warning. That's another issue in itself though.I have no problem with cyclists using bus lanes. However, they have to bear in mind they're not the only road users at risk of being wiped out by cagers not looking any further than 10ft past their bonnet. The same goes for cycle lanes on footpaths. We've all seen it, cyclists shouting abuse at pedestrians who have walked on to the cycle lane to get past another pedestrian or because they've been too busy texting, etc, etc. It's really its just about observation, being aware that you're not the only person/group entitled to be there and expecting someone to do something unexpected and even blatently stupid. Any road user, cyclist, motorcyclist or car driver who can't do that shouldn't be on the road.I always let cyclists past if there's a gap they can get through that I can't. Occasionally find that once the traffic starts flowing again, I catch them and they're holding me up. Swings and roundabouts really.
Maybe we should stop confusing cyclists with "folk on bikes". Most pro;per "cyclists" have better obs than most drivers and even bikers - vulnerability breeds that.
I don't have an issue with bikes using bus lanes, it's just a bit of give and take and, when on the motorbike I make sure I compensate for those on pushbikes - my approach speed is much faster.
As to filtering, in heavy traffic I'm much faster on my Cinelli or any of my other pushbikes (well- maybe not the unicycle) than on my VFR, but as soon as traffic frees up again the tables are turned.
By the way, I wasn't having a go at your bro, both my siblings are plod - sis in Lothian and Borders, bro ex Met now in Manchester., Just took exception to implication of cyclists being "arrogant little fuckers".
I do 5k miles ayear on my pushbike and virtually all cyclists I meet ( except for the few arses who run redlights etc) are great folk. Advantage of cycling is you can chat as you cycle. (hard with an Arai on)
Posted: 01/11/2008 at 18:56
I'm with Frem and Craig76 on this one.
You can't join a forum with xxx posts ( you have to start somewhere)
Just have a think about this one,
When I was going home from school (a few years ago), I was halfway across a crossing when a push bike hit me and I was off school for a week.
If that was to happen to me(or you) today, who would pay for me(or you) being off work for a week.
Sorry, it was ME at fault for crossing when the 'green man' was on.
Posted: 01/11/2008 at 19:01
kevinwigan wrote (see)
I'm with Frem and Craig76 on this one.You can't join a forum with xxx posts ( you have to start somewhere)Just have a think about this one, When I was going home from school (a few years ago), I was halfway across a crossing when a push bike hit me and I was off school for a week.If that was to happen to me(or you) today, who would pay for me(or you) being off work for a week. Sorry, it was ME at fault for crossing when the 'green man' was on.
I'm not defending bad behaviour of cyclists, but then if you spend any time on the road you'll see probably 50% of drivers breaking the law, red light jumping, phoning, texting, reading maps, going into box junctions etc etc.
Difference is there's not the easy target group at which to direct hate, because most of us drive. I don't know why people think of cyclists as only cyclists, most of the ones I know also have cars and many also have motorbikes.
Just trying to get some perspective on what is a minor, largely London centric problem.
By the way, if a car had jumped the crossing (and they do) you probably would still be in hospital. I suggest you could sue the cyclist, that's what civil action is for, and if you were injured, the police should have been called anyway. look at the figures for injuries to peds by bikes and those by cars, there's no comparison.
Fact that there is no registration plate or insurance makes no odds to the way the law should work.
Glad you weren't too badly hurt
Posted: 02/11/2008 at 09:38
I think it's important to realise there's a difference between an enthusiast and someone who just cycles to work. I suspect the cyclists making the most noise about this are the ones who've jumped on the eco-mentalist bandwagon and believe all fossil fueled vehicles are the creation of satan.
BTW, a lad I used to work with cycled to work under some kind of misapprehension that buying a £70 Chinese-made bike from Makro was his contribution to saving the planet. Has a certain kind of irony to it don't you think.
Posted: 02/11/2008 at 11:04
Posted: 05/11/2008 at 12:12
scootercommuter wrote (see)
I do have doubts about motorbikes and bikes mixing
What the hell does that mean? On all "normal" roads motobikes and bikes do mix. Cycle lanes are few and far between, and you get the benefit of riding on (poorly maintained) roads that we road tax + fuel tax payers pay for.
The thing with bus lanes is the cyclists are trying to set themselves up to be so special that only they+buses+taxis should use it. They didn't just voice it, they raised a petition through a pressure group.
You say that bikes are allowed to use bus lanes to protect them from faster moving traffic. Are you joking? Bus lanes were put in place to enable them to pass slow moving traffic. I have never seen a situation where traffic is moving faster in a non-bus lane (allowing for bus stops).
I'm glad you raised the cyclists-jumping-the-red-lights thing. It is a very common sight, yet the cyclists get away with it.
Posted: 05/11/2008 at 12:34
The next thing with bus lanes is to get the taxis OUT.
Thing is, most bus lanes are only in use at rush hours, right (7am-10am, 4pm-7pm)? And my own personal obs tells me that the taxis using them just have the driver by himself and so are merely commuting. So they are simply caged commuters and not "public transport". Get rid of the many commuting cabs and then the buses and other bus lane users have less to contend with and can move more freely.
Sounds logical to me.
Posted: 05/11/2008 at 12:45
I think there's only two ways to fix this,
1. change the wording for 'bus' lanes to ..... bus,taxi and 'ped'-cycles.
2. change our taxation class from 'bicycle' to 'motorcycle'.
How many 'ped' riders have you ever seen do a 'life-saver'?
How many have you seen using a 'cycle lane' (and I don't mean the ones with buses)
Posted: 06/11/2008 at 22:13
I would never use a cycle only lane while riding a motorbike. I've seen scooter riders in Holland using cycles lanes and it's bad idea, not only for cyclists but for pedestrians too.
The taxi's I've seen using bus lanes cause problems when they start switching from bus lane to normal lane, depending on whichever one is moving faster. This is real risk to all 2-wheeled commuters when filtering.
Cyclists have been openly and immediately hostile about other road users in "their" bus lanes by starting pressure groups, so they can't really complain when they get the same in return. Have they made any effort to involve themselves in intelligent discussion with the likes of the BMF, to promote awareness that we all have a right to use the roads? Having said that, if I was a regular cyclist and thought I may possibly have to share space with some 16yo, trakkie-wearing chav on a barely roadworthy and uninsured scooter, I'd probably agree with them.
IMHO, the only reason cyclists can use bus lanes is because it's unenforcable as an offence due to lack of registration plates, etc, not because it's a god-given right to be there over anyone else. I'm sure bus drivers would probably agree, i.e. when pulling over towards the kerb to pick up passengers. And let's be honest here, while there are some cycling enthusiasts who may well be very competent, there's also a lot who have little more and maybe less road sense than the above mentioned 16yo on a scooter, just through the CBT.
I also think that when cycle lanes are provided, the use of them should be mandatory and cyclists should not mix in with other traffic, but that's just as common as jumping red lights.
Posted: 07/11/2008 at 11:50
Using the cycle lanes down Upper & Lower Thames Street (near Tower Bridge, London) is almost the norm. Well, for those who are useless at filtering, anyway.
Posted: 07/11/2008 at 12:00
SWC wrote (see)
Posted: 07/11/2008 at 12:31
Sorry, but that's crap and the real reason people use them is because it is faster than filtering along there. The Highway Code is clear on when other vehicles may enter them:
Para 140 says "Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable."
BTW, I've got lots of posts. Just not necessarily on this forum...
Posted: 07/11/2008 at 13:24
Para 140 says "Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a broken white line unless it is unavoidable."
The thing with the Highway Code is it keeps getting bigger and bigger. How many people have looked at it since passing their test?
Posted: 07/11/2008 at 16:21
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