Deaths by uninsured drivers at record level

I said it many times, the amount of foreign plated cars with no tax, insurance and the driver obviously has no licence is staggering in my area, however the police are more concerned with nicking people for speeding.

It doesnt effect you until they hit you or your car/motorcycle.

Posted: 15/08/2008 18:43

My concern is the penalty these scum recieve. The logic seems to be "the prisons are overcrowded, don't send offenders there unless it's absolutely necessary". Fair enough on the face of it, but if you've just killed someone and couldn't even be arsed to insure your vehicle beforehand you richly deserve a long stay in the big house to think about where you went wrong. Even if the perpetrator never realises just how badly they messed up, the well publicised sentance might deter a few other halfwits from following in their footsteps. As for prison overcrowding? Take a look at the accomodation our government provides to our armed services. Thirty to a room on warships, tent cities in the desert, breeze block and tin roof cells in main operational bases...is life in a British prison really that bad? 
Posted: 15/08/2008 20:19

T509Speedy wrote (see)

I said it many times, the amount of foreign plated cars with no tax, insurance and the driver obviously has no licence is staggering in my area, however the police are more concerned with nicking people for speeding.

It doesnt effect you until they hit you or your car/motorcycle.

Hi T509Speedy,

How do you know these cars have no tax? Do you know what system the Polish (for instance) used for vehicle licencing, and how they display it? Not all countries have a round disk in the windscreen...

As for insurance and a licence have you stopped and asked these people or are you just making a sweeping generalisation about foreign road users? I wonder how people in Continental Europe view you when you ride or drive in their countries???

Posted: 15/08/2008 20:26

Flo wrote (see)

...is life in a British prison really that bad? 

This was recently covered on the Pistonheads forums - basically there are loads of Daily Mail readers who reckon that prison is like a holiday camp - but asking if anyone on there had been in prison and what it's really like.

A couple of bods had been in prison (eg. dangerous driving) and gave a good account of what it's like. Basically not nice at all (fucking awful, in fact), and you really, really don't want to go there  

Posted: 15/08/2008 23:20

I could write a thesis on this, but will try to summarse as follows:

Motor insurance has never been cheaper in real terms than it is currently - the majority of motor insurers carry a COR of over 100% on Motor (this means they pay out more than they bring in premiums). However, there is a wide discrepancy now with them fighting for the better / more experienced / older driver and avoiding the riskier driver.

This would historically have meant that the riskier driver would buy a car based on the premium they could afford. Again, 15 years of "good times" and a "want it now" culture, mean that the younger generation believe that they have birthright to cheap insurance and so simply opt out if the cost is beyond their means.

Effectively these are the two key factors in uninsured drivers existing, although it is compounded by car dealers offering clear fiddles to circumvent attempts to rectify this. As an example the requirement to prove insurance before being allowed to buy a car from a dealer has been circumvented by dealers now offering a free 7 day policy.

Posted: 15/08/2008 23:34

As most know, i am a copper in the NE of the UK, and out of a set of 4 shifts, i sieze at least 2 cars for not having insurance. My colleagues will do similar.

There is a lot of uninsured cars out there, and its only been recently that we could siezed them.

Some times, it isnt insured due to ignorance. A week a go a siezed a car when the driver said it was his wifes car, and he was driving it on his own insurance, third party only, as he was fully comp. When i checked his insurance, it stated that he could not drive any other vehicles.

Its surprising how many dont read the small print.

If you kill someone, due to your driving, and are not (or may be even if you are) insured, then there is a good chance you will go to jail.

Posted: 16/08/2008 00:50

PCthug_UK wrote (see)

As most know, i am a copper in the NE of the UK, and out of a set of 4 shifts, i sieze at least 2 cars for not having insurance. My colleagues will do similar.

There is a lot of uninsured cars out there, and its only been recently that we could siezed them.

Some times, it isnt insured due to ignorance. A week a go a siezed a car when the driver said it was his wifes car, and he was driving it on his own insurance, third party only, as he was fully comp. When i checked his insurance, it stated that he could not drive any other vehicles.

Its surprising how many dont read the small print.

If you kill someone, due to your driving, and are not (or may be even if you are) insured, then there is a good chance you will go to jail.

Just out of interest? Can you let me (and T509Speedy) know how many "foreign plated cars with no tax, insurance and the driver obviously has no licence" you come across when on your shifts?

PS - Do you get a hard time as a known officer on a biker's site? Kudos for being up front about it.

Posted: 16/08/2008 08:14

H_Sirilmai wrote (see)

T509Speedy wrote (see)

I said it many times, the amount of foreign plated cars with no tax, insurance and the driver obviously has no licence is staggering in my area, however the police are more concerned with nicking people for speeding.

It doesnt effect you until they hit you or your car/motorcycle.

Hi T509Speedy,

How do you know these cars have no tax? Do you know what system the Polish (for instance) used for vehicle licencing, and how they display it? Not all countries have a round disk in the windscreen...

As for insurance and a licence have you stopped and asked these people or are you just making a sweeping generalisation about foreign road users? I wonder how people in Continental Europe view you when you ride or drive in their countries???

I'm not just talking about polish vehicles, most of them around my way aren't owned by polish, czech or other European drivers and have been driving around my way, parked up and used, I know for a fact these vehicle are being illegally used to avoid, tax, insurance and if they are being used for these purposes you can pretty much be guaranteed that the drivers haven't got a legal British driving licence either.

Some of the driving I have seen from these people is so bad that they couldnt possibly have passed their test in this country, like driving down the middle of the road at 15 MPH.

I took some advice from PC_thug.  Unlike some of the police on here he seems like one of the good ones.

Posted: 16/08/2008 09:24

Orb the Impaler wrote (see)

Flo wrote (see)

...is life in a British prison really that bad? 

This was recently covered on the Pistonheads forums - basically there are loads of Daily Mail readers who reckon that prison is like a holiday camp - but asking if anyone on there had been in prison and what it's really like.

A couple of bods had been in prison (eg. dangerous driving) and gave a good account of what it's like. Basically not nice at all (fucking awful, in fact), and you really, really don't want to go there  

Sorry mate, I don't want to kick that argument off again, but my point is that prison conditions shouldn't stop some low life spending richly earned time inside. The armed forces thing is my personal hoby horse- a floating prison was taken out of service because it was deemed unsuitable for inmates. The RN bought it (always on the lookout for a bargain) and use it as temporary accomodation in Portsmouth dockyard. "Temporary" can be measured in months, but the matelots recon the ex-prison is miles ahead of their on board messdecks! Crabs and squaddies have similar stories to tell. I know UK prisons are overcrowded and bloody unpleasant, but that's rather the point, don't you think? Chopping single beds for double or tripple bunks could add a huge amount of "temporary" accomodation in low security prisons if we're really that short on space...
Posted: 16/08/2008 11:43

H_Sirilmai wrote (see)

PCthug_UK wrote (see)

As most know, i am a copper in the NE of the UK, and out of a set of 4 shifts, i sieze at least 2 cars for not having insurance. My colleagues will do similar.

There is a lot of uninsured cars out there, and its only been recently that we could siezed them.

Some times, it isnt insured due to ignorance. A week a go a siezed a car when the driver said it was his wifes car, and he was driving it on his own insurance, third party only, as he was fully comp. When i checked his insurance, it stated that he could not drive any other vehicles.

Its surprising how many dont read the small print.

If you kill someone, due to your driving, and are not (or may be even if you are) insured, then there is a good chance you will go to jail.

Just out of interest? Can you let me (and T509Speedy) know how many "foreign plated cars with no tax, insurance and the driver obviously has no licence" you come across when on your shifts?

PS - Do you get a hard time as a known officer on a biker's site? Kudos for being up front about it.

I dont see as many foreign registered cars on the road with out insurance etc, as i do UK ones. But that could be for a number of reasons. Firstly, i am in the NE, so possibly there arent as many oop north as darn sarf. Its easy bringing a car through the euro tunnel, and keeping it here. Some of them will venture north, but the majority stay down south. There are cars like this in the UK i know, some are legit, some are not. Its the luck of the draw of the ones i stop. Secondly, I have stopped them, but nowhere near as much as UK ones, but that is because there are far more UK ones than foreign.

Its difficult for police to know which ones are visiting and which ones are resident, without stopping every one of them. My advice is, if you see and KNOW these cars to be illegal, then have a word with your road policing unit (traffic dept), and let them know. We have a local intelligence officer who puts things like this on the daily briefing, which gets read out at the start of every shift. An officer will be tasked to look at it. Dont expect it to be dont over night, but it will be looked at. DONT ring your local station, as you will only speak to someone from response or local beats, who's priorities are gonna be far away from traffic related things, as they may not get a tick in the book for traffic jobs. Make sure you ring traffic, as it is in their interest and priority,  and the officer will get recognition (tick in their work book) for siezing a car.

A foreign driver can drive in this country for a year on their countries licence. There is a big problem of asylum seakers driving here after being in the country for years. I have great pleasure in taking their cars off them.

Another problem we have is foreign artic drivers (mainly polish) drink driving. It either seems to be their culture to do this, or is acceptable in their country.

I do sometimes get a hard time off certain people on biking forums, but i dont mind. I can accept that not all like police (especially traffic coppers), and have been badly treated by some, so paint them all with the same brush. I will try to offer people advice from my own experiences, or offer a point of view, some will agree some wont. I am still a biker, and was years before becoming a copper.

Posted: 16/08/2008 12:05

Whilst I feel (note - not "know") that traffic policing is heavy handed in the UK, I take great pleasure knowing that cars get confiscated and crushed when uninsured.

I also like the ANPR / VOSA checks that sem to happen quite frequently - there should be more of these and less focus on speeding,particuallry on motorways.

Having no insurance should be the next high-visibility blitz, along the lines of the drink-driving blitz that made this socially unacceptable.

It's likely that more respect will be given by the general public to traffic policing if they see a focus on this, instead of the perceived persecution of "innocent" drivers.

I put innocent in brackets, as personally I have only ever been done for speeding on a motorway - two of which were deserved, two of which were farcical (85mph on a deserted motorway at 2 in the morning) - I've little time for the epolice on the back of this, which I'm sure was not the intention, but is the effect of root cause obsessions with speeding.

Posted: 16/08/2008 12:31

There was a news item last week about a bloke from the sub-continent charging £600 to take some ones test for them. We had an incident up here when 22 people again from the sub continent were using the same licence. Out of embarrassment I think the police stopped looking when they got to 22. Go to any car auctions and you will see people driving out with the Auction details still stuck on the screen. These days when people say Polish/ eastern European read Pakistani. This is not a new phenomenon in the mid 70's I was sat at a set of traffic lights with two cars in front when I was rear ended by one of the Brethren. My car and the car in front was written off and the the one in front of us both had badly damaged rear end. Low and behold he was not known at the address or the insurance company he gave us, so three of us all ended up loosing. Have a nice day
Posted: 17/08/2008 17:36

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7563981.stm

MAN JAILED FOR DRIVING TEST FRAUD<!-- S BO --><!-- S SF -->

An illegal immigrant who was paid £100 a time to sit driving exams for more than 100 people has been jailed for two years and told he will be deported.

Police said Indian national Palwinder Singh Johal was part of Britain's biggest driving test fraud.

The 24-year-old, of Warwick Crescent, Hayes, Middlesex, was caught in Oxford where he had been sitting the theory part of the test.

He was jailed at Oxford Crown Court on Friday after admitting fraud. <!-- E SF -->

Johal pleaded guilty to one count of attempting to obtain goods by deception and two counts of fraud by abuse of position.

Track down drivers

After the sentencing, Insp Jim Strachan, of Thames Valley Police, said: "We believe this scam runs into hundreds of impersonations.

"Johal has pleaded guilty to 21 impersonation tests but we believe that's the tip of the iceberg."

Johal took tests for people across the south of England and the West Midlands and operated from a gang base in Slough, Berkshire.

The Driving Standards Agency said it was now trying to track down the people who Johal had impersonated.

Posted: 17/08/2008 22:37

I've been hit twice in the last 4 years by uninsured drivers, both times I was stationary! One gave me a false name and was never traced the second gave me a false name and was caught, £140 fine, not really a deterrant when his insurance would probably be £500 to £1000 and having his car impounded and crushed wont stop him either, it was worth less than £100. Until the government make the fine cost more than the insurance we will always have plenty of uninsured drivers.  
Posted: 19/08/2008 15:13

Here in Cambridgshire the police have been targeting bikers on club ride out nights. For some strange reason it seems you are deemed to be public enemy number one if you have a smaller than standard number plate.  No wonder the respect has gone. Mostly these are bikers with fully insured, taxed, MOT'ed bikes.  I had my bike pinched a couple of years ago and managed to "buy it back" from the scum as the police admitted they had no chance of finding it.  Shame they couldn't "target" the real criminals.
As for prison, try an American jail.  I managed to spend two days in one in Florida (for a trumped up charge I hasten to add) and that was the most unpleasant two days of my life. One TV per wing which was behind wire mesh and twenty feet in the air.  The food was really shite and long term inmates had to pay for extra real food (or their teeth would fall out due to lack of vitamins).  I certainly never went anywhere near the showers.   

Posted: 19/08/2008 17:08

I am a PSV driver and see this all day, so called drivers careering about the road and have seen police vans ignoring them. I once was driving down a one way street only to meet a merc coming the other way. I stop, get out and tell him to reverse only to find its one of our coloured bros who insists I reverse and when I mention that I will have to call the police he goes into a panic and tells me he cannot reverse as in unable! says he will have to phone his son, who comes and reveres it. this type of so-called driver needs to be concentrated on and so-called speeding ignored.
Posted: 19/08/2008 19:24

The daily snail mentality rules!!!.I,m a Medic that has to deal with this crap of society every time that the cops drag them into the nicks, its not the average copper not doing thier job ,but the courts and govm,t pandering to wimp social policies,also in the majority they are our own twats! "good old born and bred in britain",and cover ALL social classes,habitual repeat offenders that are uninsurable/already lost thier licence,but its cheeper to get a small fine and soft community sentance than pay thier way,
Posted: 20/08/2008 16:46