BUDGET announcement - fuel prices to rise again

Posted: 22/04/2009 at 16:22

Wonder if I'll get £2000 off an R6 for my clapped out Fiesta...

Didn't think so.

Posted: 22/04/2009 at 16:42

tufty00 wrote (see)

Anyone ready for a new government yet? The prediction that "global warming" is just an excuse for western socialist to raise tax revenue and share out wealth is coming true. Keep voting Labour.

Yes, of course it's an excuse for raising taxes but do not for one minute think that's a socialist move:

a) This is not a socialist government - it is totally capitalist in all respects

b) Socialists use direct taxation as it's based upon ability to pay - capitalists use indirect taxation such as fuel duty as it hits the poor more than the rich.

Posted: 22/04/2009 at 17:56

Posted: 22/04/2009 at 20:09

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 09:46

tufty00 wrote (see)

b)  capitalists use indirect taxation such as fuel duty as it hits the poor more than the rich.

erhh, how?

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:12

TongPo wrote (see)

tufty00 wrote (see)

b)  capitalists use indirect taxation such as fuel duty as it hits the poor more than the rich.

erhh, how?

I'm not convinced about the conspiracy theory side of it but it probably does hit the poor more on average because they have less disposable income to pay for the increases.  I doubt the average commute is greater for those on higher incomes but relative to income the rises will be less significant for them - unlike income tax which is of course directly related to income.

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:17

Bikingbadger wrote (see)

Isn't it just about providing a boost to the car industry but dressed up as environmentally friendly?  Not convinced that the carbon emissions involved in producing a new car are sufficient to result in a net reduction.

It's a phony scheme, just electoral bribery and doesn't really matter anyway - the idea is self funding (the VAT from the sales will cover the cost of the scheme) and it is unlikely that there are that many owners of 10 year old heaps that are about to go and have the thrill of a new, shiny car....  

But this miserable government will be able to point at some spurious 'opportunity' that they have created amongst the dire economic forecasts....

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:25

FJSRiDER. wrote (see)

Bikingbadger wrote (see)

Isn't it just about providing a boost to the car industry but dressed up as environmentally friendly?  Not convinced that the carbon emissions involved in producing a new car are sufficient to result in a net reduction.

It's a phony scheme, just electoral bribery and doesn't really matter anyway - the idea is self funding (the VAT from the sales will cover the cost of the scheme) and it is unlikely that there are that many owners of 10 year old heaps that are about to go and have the thrill of a new, shiny car....  

But this miserable government will be able to point at some spurious 'opportunity' that they have created amongst the dire economic forecasts....

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:31

Also it's about jobs and votes.

Where do you think those remaining car workers are, in Tory constituencies?

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:31

Bikingbadger wrote (see)

TongPo wrote (see)

tufty00 wrote (see)

b)  capitalists use indirect taxation such as fuel duty as it hits the poor more than the rich.

erhh, how?

I'm not convinced about the conspiracy theory side of it but it probably does hit the poor more on average because they have less disposable income to pay for the increases.  I doubt the average commute is greater for those on higher incomes but relative to income the rises will be less significant for them - unlike income tax which is of course directly related to income.

someone on a low income probably feels it more, but then they'll feel any increase more. It probably hits richer folk more cos they have bigger cars (generally) hence use more fuel. Or summat.

income tax would be more directly related to income if it was a fixed percent no matter what you earn.  as it (and prob always has been) is necessary but unfair i feel.

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:36

iBurty wrote (see)

Some analyst on the BBC summed that up for me this morning in one sentence he said:  "There might be someone somewhere that benefits from that".

Got to wonder who. 

An average year old car with modest mileage on the clock will sell for about 60% of list price.   Given that every new car sold will lose more than £2000 in value as as soon as is rolls out of the showroom, I cannot see how this will significantly increase sales.

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:38

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 10:57

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 11:00

Bikingbadger wrote (see)

I'm not sure - I think there'll be a few people who've recently passed their test and have been driving a banger around who'll fancy a brand new car and will want to snap up their £2k discount when they can. I went from a crappy metro to a new car about 6 months after I'd passed my test.

But as said....they'll have to have it a year before they can.

I think its bollox...its doesnt start till next yr (I think) and is only for a yr. 

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 11:53

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 11:58

GR wrote (see)

But as said....they'll have to have it a year before they can.

I think its bollox...its doesnt start till next yr (I think) and is only for a yr. 

It will start next month and run until March 2010

Full details of the scheme, which will also apply to vans, will be announced by Lord Mandelson's Department of Business within the next few weeks.

Somebody wanting to participate in the scheme would begin negotiations for a new car at the dealership by providing proof of the car's age and the fact that they have owned the vehicle for at least a year.

From The Telegraph.

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 12:02

As usual it "looks" like he's taxing the rich and to a certain extent he has, but it's the poorest who are hit hardest, if your earning over £150K then 2p a litre on petrol makes no impact when filling up the Bentley, but when on minimun wage it's a massive hike. Seems like Darling has looked at the fact that people have saved a bit of cash due to inflation and mortgage rates coming down and decided that his guvment need it more. I've got an old X-reg clio, runs fine and runs well, i'd like a new car but i dont "NEED" a new car,.....Here's something that i find funny, this £2000 towards a new car, most people have to take credit to buy a new car, and as this credit crunch was caused by people wanting what they couldn't afford....

Instead of putting millions into this car scheme to save on greenhouse gases and carbon footprints pish, why not give every house hold in britain 2 free solar panels, one for hot water and the other for electricity. Oh...hang on..... that wont happen as that would mean generating our own energy and be less reliant on the power companys and would cost them billions in lost revenue, resulting in less tax for the guvment who always bang on about being green. Oh you can be green as long as it doesn't cost the companys money.

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 12:50

Doolybhoy 1 wrote (see)

Instead of putting millions into this car scheme to save on greenhouse gases and carbon footprints pish, why not give every house hold in britain 2 free solar panels, one for hot water and the other for electricity. Oh...hang on..... that wont happen as that would mean generating our own energy and be less reliant on the power companys and would cost them billions in lost revenue, resulting in less tax for the guvment who always bang on about being green. Oh you can be green as long as it doesn't cost the companys money.

Well put!

I fully aggree with what you said at the start too about the fuel tax hike and the rich not feeling it as they fill their guzzlers......they wont!

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 12:58

Doolybhoy 1 wrote (see)

As usual it "looks" like he's taxing the rich and to a certain extent he has, but it's the poorest who are hit hardest, if your earning over £150K then 2p a litre on petrol makes no impact when filling up the Bentley, but when on minimun wage it's a massive hike. Seems like Darling has looked at the fact that people have saved a bit of cash due to inflation and mortgage rates coming down and decided that his guvment need it more. I've got an old X-reg clio, runs fine and runs well, i'd like a new car but i dont "NEED" a new car,.....Here's something that i find funny, this £2000 towards a new car, most people have to take credit to buy a new car, and as this credit crunch was caused by people wanting what they couldn't afford....

Instead of putting millions into this car scheme to save on greenhouse gases and carbon footprints pish, why not give every house hold in britain 2 free solar panels, one for hot water and the other for electricity. Oh...hang on..... that wont happen as that would mean generating our own energy and be less reliant on the power companys and would cost them billions in lost revenue, resulting in less tax for the guvment who always bang on about being green. Oh you can be green as long as it doesn't cost the companys money.

I don't think he's as sophisticated as all that.

He's just applying the stealth tax principles they've been applying for years.  2p on fuel duty, more tax on fags, a few pence on a pint of beer etc nets them plenty of money but means they don't upset the Daily Mail readers by increasing headeline income tax rates.

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 14:25

Dont be fooled, Darling is a bastard, he knows exactly what he's doing. He's trying to squeeze every spare penny out of the living and the dead (inheritance tax). well if he's gonna be raising/stealing more money he'd better be ready to abolish all that MP expenses shite Lead by example Darling.

ps: Anyone else think he looks a bit like that "Hawk" character from Buck Rodgers?

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 22:27

Doolybhoy 1 wrote (see)

well if he's gonna be raising/stealing more money he'd better be ready to abolish all that MP expenses shite Lead by example Darling

Aye but will he!

There all lying, thieving scum dressed in a fuckin tin flute..

Posted: 23/04/2009 at 22:50

Posted: 24/04/2009 at 23:33