R6 5EB fault

Sorry if this is a bit long but ill try and give as much info as possible.

I have a 2000 5EB R6 what won’t rev above 1000rpm when stood but runs fine when being ridden. I bought the bike like this as last owner had given up and couldn’t find problem. When the bike is first started its fine for first couple of min then it won’t tick over and needs at least a quarter of throttle just to keep running at 1000rpm. Even with full throttle open the bike won’t rev above 1000rpm no mater in what position but if dropped below quarter throttle it dies.

                                                            When I bought the bike it had been stood well over 6 month so I had carbs cleaned and it didn’t solve the problem. I then checked resistance from throttle position sensor and even though it was between max to min tolerance it was jumping about so I changed this sensor. This didn’t solve the problem so I then raped a mate’s bike which is running perfect of its carbs fitted to mine and still have problem. I then changed CDI over and problem is still the same so where do I go from here?

What I cant understand is when bike is being ridden as long as revs are kept above 2000rpm bike is fine but once dropped below this figure that’s it I then stuck to max 1000rpm with bike not attempting to rev. Everything in my head is saying fuel problem or possibly air but cant see why it runs ok while being ridden and also that another good set of carbs have been fitted.

Again sorry its long but my head is battered

Regards

Alan

Ok first things first, check the idle adjuster on the offside, just above the engine case?

Wind it up when stationary, the revs are normally around 1100-1500 depending on what you want.

As you say, it does sound like an ariflow or fuel flow prob given what you've already tried.

So, undo the tank and lift it up like the car bonnet.

Is the fuel intake line kinked at all? It should have a natural bend in it to accomodate the feul tank being lifted up and down.

If that's ok, check out the fuel fiter for crap, as well as the line from the tank to the filter, and the line from the filter to the pump.

When you first turn the electrics on without starting the engine, does the fuel pump 'tick over' a few times?

Maybe it's on the way out.

So investigate the fuel supply right up to the carbs first, then let us know what's what?

I have had 4 5EB's in the last 2 years.

I do modify them alot to allow quick access at the track ( I don't use them on the road), and the only time I had identical symptoms was when I made a new fuel line too long and it suffered from kinking.

Think i have found the problem and its not looking good. The crankcase breather hose is like it's own little power station blowing crap back into the air filter. This would explain why it run's ok when being riden as its getting good clean air via ram air duct's but when its stood its chocking its self.

Why is there that much crap blowing out of crankcase breather hose and am i looking at a major engine strip down to solve this problem.

Regards

Alan

Ooeerrr.........

Have you check the air filter?

What do you mean by crap? Is there evidence of oil in the expelled air, or is it sooty, or rich, and moist or what?

I've bypassed that 'circuit' and just blow clean air in by using a length of hosepipe with the other end at the ram air intake, but that's for a race bike which generally isn't at standstill for very long and even then it doesn't struggle like you described.

So I take it the idle speed is ok etc?

The recirculation back up into the airbox (from teh crankcase like you've said) is basically for engine temp control and fuel adjustment I think. The recirculated air is not gonna be pure as far as I know (depends on what crap you mean) so it may be that you haven't found the cause of your original problem?

If the air re-entering the airbox is ok, then perhaps there is a split gasket above oil level which is allowing air to seep into the air system and thus affecting the pressure and idle speed?

I'm a bit stumped as I can't play with the bike and of course I don't know everything; but at least I'm replying and trying to help unlike others lol

It may well be that your piston rings are gummed up and stuck in or worn, depending on mileage etc. This would allow blow by of the piston and pressurisation of the crank cases. Pressure is relieved by expelling into airbox.

The expensive way is to strip and potentially re-ring the engine. Not cheap as barrels are part of upper crank case so you will have to split cases.

Cheap way for now is to reroute crankcase breather into a separate overflow bottle which itself is vented to air. Blank off the inlet to the airbox whilst you are at it.

The second way will prove / disprove your theory but I think you are right. It is a common problem on race engines that are in need of a refresh / rebuild. 

I'd agree with Blue' &  'prilla - standing that long might've gummed the rings up. You could try doing a compression test, then re-testing with a little oil down the bores.

I *think* generally the reason for routing the engine breathers into the airbox is to reduce UCH (unburnt hydrocarbon) emissions by making sure any oil mist is burnt.

As 'prilla says - plenty cheap to re-route the breather and blank the airbox.

BUT, don't be tempted to blank the breather - if you have got a lot of blow-by then the crank case could pressurise quite a lot, which can disrupt oil flow, and/or blow seals with mechanical carnage then ensuing. Vent it into a bottle or something.

Air filter is in need of a very good clean and there is a small amount of oil in air filter housing. I have removed breather pipe and fitted another longer pipe to top of crank case breather with the other end coming out of back of bike just under sub frame. The bike is now runing but not as it should as its slow to respond, feels a bit flat and doesn't sound smooth. The breather pipe coming out of rear of bike is kicking out more smoke then exhaust is. The smell is like burnt/old oil with a little exhaust smoke mixed in. When engine is hot then there are small traces of oil vapor mixed in with the smoke. I am taking to a mates garage tomorrow morning to do compression test. Once i have done this i will do another with oil in cylinders to see what the difference is and to be honest im expecting a big one.

If the piston rings seem to be ok (19,000 miles on clock) then i have read somthing on forum site google found regarding someone with same condition. It was someone who had just bought bike like me and suffered very simular problem but not an R6. What he found was that the oil in the bike was crap very cheap motorsave or from local supermarket the stuff you buy 10 gallon a time for £5. The oil had been in the bike sometime and wasn't good enough so he changed it for really good quality oil and the problem never came back. He said once oil had been changed he still had exhaust smoke which you would expect but the other crap which smelled of burnt/old oil had gonealong with the oil vapour

Is there any other engine breathers which could be blocked.

Blimey, I bet this is all due to a small hicup...

Carbs may need balancing too. The 'oil' you mention in the filter, don't worry too much about it, unless it's shite loads of course.

Before you go and do any deep surgery, I agree with the oil change aspect.

Sort that, give it a good hot run and then drop all that 'new' oil out ad see what's in it, obviously check out the oil filter too (£6?). That alone (chainging the oil and filter out) may well sort the entier problem. If not, then it's my limited know-how but I'm sure the others are well versed.

The new line you ran out to the rear of the bike from the crank case; the contents of that will still appear a tad moist etc so don't give too much attention to it as an indication of the health fo the engine etc. Don't forget you've got lots of hot air (there's a lot of it about lol) mixing and condensing before it exits the end fo the pipe (hose), and it WILL smell rich coming from inside the engine if you see what i mean?

Cheap (new)oil and filter change, go for a blast, another change with decent Castrol or Motul and I reckon you'll be grinng. After that, don't forget to change back the crank case by-pass and check the idle speed setting etc, as the previous owner may have altered it to try to compensate for the problems.

Just had an after thought (after a bottle of Cava).

One of my old carb'd blades sat for about 9 months and it had similar issues.

It was due an oil and filter change and when I lefted the spark plugs out to check them I found an oily gunk on the spark end but the threads were clean.

So I changed them out anyway (for iridiums) and checked the leads with a multi-meter and found one to be sub standard but left it in there.

The new plugs fired up a treat and burend off some residue for a minute or two, then all was hunkeydoree.

Have you checked the plug ends for settled residue?

Let't not forget that in cases like this, often there is more than ONE problem, and when we find one probelm we tend to settle for that instead of exploring further.

Alas, the world is a better place with an alcohol and tobacco binge lol

This has gone quiet.

Sorted the problem yet Papa Tgash??

I have the exact same problem on My R6 only seems to get the problem when its above 80 on the temp gauge. If you shut the bike off it will start but you have to keep the throttle on otherwise it stalls, sometimes ive sat there for ages with my hand on the throttle then all of a sudden it will redline then run fine.

Ive cleaned the carbs, changed the plugs and coils put the bike into TPS setting mode found my TPS has a dodgy wire ( £201 + VAT for the part !) so i think ill fix the break or get one from eBay.

Im going to drop the oil replace the filter and recheck my plugs and run a new breather from the crank case to see if this will hopefully fix it.

If the OP could post any more news from how they got on it would be great.

Mark

Hi guys,  I've got the same problem with my 5eb R6 and I suspect its due to nackered piston rings as I think the engine may have been once used in a race bike. 

 I'm happy with taking the engine out myself but splitting the cases is a little A-Level for me, can anyone recommend a good mechanic who I could have rebuild the engine for me with new piston rings?  Ideally somewhere in the Lincolnshire or Birmingham area (or anywhere inbetween).

Also does anyone have any idea how much this might cost?  I'm expecting my wallet to take quite a raping!

hi guys,,just reading all te coments hope you dont mind me joining in,,my 05 r6 has just started playing up under 3000 revs,,goes fine above that and under load, will sometimes tickover normal and not stall for a bout 10 min ride,then will stall when i pull clutch in an lumpy tickover till it dies,,had new plugs 800 miles ago but changed them again to delete them as the problem bike only done 8000 miles,,not sure why but im thinking coils,but surly it woudnt run well at all if it was,so im stummped gave machanic to look at and he cant tell what prob is,process of ilimination i think,be great if anyone solves  their similar  problem to give us a write up etc

thanks for reading guys anymore tips would be great

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hi every 1 iv got a 2000 r6 mine has been doing the same as every 1 elses running crap when warm then a load of oil came out of my air box and now i think the head gasket had blown could this be the piston rings and if so will they have to be rebored thanks every 1