XR600 Modifications.

79 posts / 0 new
Last post
XR600 Modifications.

Ok as you was all hijacking my bike pics thread I thought I'd start this one instead. This is strictly for XR600 owners only...errr...and me!
Ok, this notchy throttle thing. I thought this was caused by teh removal of the backfire screen thingy?
Feel free to write about any mods you have made to your XR. Cos I is interested to learn about teh XR600. Did someone say they like to blow thier fork seals??

I believe the XR6 uses the same carb as the 650, which also suffers the stutter from a closed throttle.I believe careful jetting on the pilot can ease the problem a bit on the 650, but a lot of it is down to damage the carb inflicts on itself due to poor design.Mine is irritating when you're trying to get the power down early while still cranked over - you can do it, but you just develop this subconscious ability to dip the clutch, give it a few revs and then feed the clutch out after its got its little tantrum surge out of the way.It's certainly not a major problem unless laptimes are a consideration, or you're not prepared to ride round the problem until you'd rather spend the £££ on another carb.IMHO, of course.

Taipan,I think you meant to write that the stumble is cured by removing the screen?Stoo's right, the problem can be ridden round,you just have to re-educate throttle hand as to timing and twist to apply at low throttle settings.Fine on dry roads, more awkward on dirt/wet roads/ice.best bet seems the replacemet carb.(i'm watching Stoo to see how this goes)

Darth Bear wrote

best bet seems the replacemet carb.(i'm watching Stoo to see how this goes)

It's not as easy as it looks.I can't remember when I rang Allens to order the carb - whether it was a week ago or 2.I speak to this pretty helpful guy who seemed to know what I was talking about, or at least pretended pretty well Said he had one in to suit an XR600, but not a 650. Wasn't sure if the difference between them was jetting related, or manifold stuff, so decided to hold off and get the 650 one ordered up. They said they'd get it in, and give us a bell. Should take a week or 2.Rings up again this afternoon. "Oh, no - we ain't got one of those in. I can order one up, but you'll have to wait for the delivery to come in. It'll be at least a couple of weeks"Alarm bells are ringing, so I fires off a couple of precautionary emails to Bergos (who're shut on monday and don't accept credit cards) and XRs only (not much form to go on, but Hawkman seemed to recommend em).If I do manage to get one, chances are I won't be keeping quiet about it, so no doubt you'll hear of any progress

I'm all ears hmmmmmmmmm decisions decisions new carb?new boots?new arai?new DVD-burner?

Well, boots, helmets and porn-burners don't make your bike go faster

need new booots got some sidi vertebraes, but you cant wear em at work all day.got some cheap Oxstars at NEC last year,they leak like a seive!!!OK for £40 though.fancy some goretex lined boots this Nov. @ NEC

I seem to be alone in not detesting the stock XR600 carb... I've been running my XR on the road for 3 years now and have never really has any issues with the carb apart from an icing problem. The initial reponse as you crack open the throttle is certainly not an issue, its sharp but not really any more so than the KTM Duke Series 3 I had before.From what I have been told, and based on my own experience I suspect that a lot of tuning work etc concentrates a little too much on free-up the intake of the XR in order to maximise the tope end power output. It wouldn't surprise me if this in turn tends to screw up the initial delivery.My bike benefitted from a long setup period, with perhaps a total of 30 or so dyno runs and loads of test rides covering various carb/exhaust/jetting options. The end result uses a pilot jet considerably smaller than most people end up recommending, and the retention of the backfire screen. Despite this my bike still puts out a respectable 50bhp at the rear wheel - which seems to be about the limit for most XR6's.

Fatman wrote

From what I have been told, and based on my own experience I suspect that a lot of tuning work etc concentrates a little too much on free-up the intake of the XR in order to maximise the tope end power output. It wouldn't surprise me if this in turn tends to screw up the initial delivery.My bike benefitted from a long setup period, with perhaps a total of 30 or so dyno runs and loads of test rides covering various carb/exhaust/jetting options. The end result uses a pilot jet considerably smaller than most people end up recommending, and the retention of the backfire screen. Despite this my bike still puts out a respectable 50bhp at the rear wheel - which seems to be about the limit for most XR6's.

Interesting. Mine only got 42bhp with FMF header/Arrow can. Kept the mesh (didn't know about the mod at the time). But mine was running slightly rich, so maybe smaller pilot would have helped? I thought my XR needed more mid to top end oomph to keep water-cooled technology at bay... Just prefered at slick throttle control and hence smoother delivery of power is all. A kick in the seat is OK for wheelies, but not when you're cranked over in the wet or backing it in IMHO.

I'm with Fatman - not really got a problem!? No dyno testing yet though.Mines stock other than tail pipe and uncorked filter and main jet upped to 160.Guess I just ride round any probs (or am too unskilled to really notice muuuuch probs ) It adds 'character' IYKWIM

Hawkman wrote

Interesting. A kick in the seat is OK for wheelies, but not when you're cranked over in the wet or backing it in IMHO.

By shapr I meant more like instantaneous, it nothing if nto controllable. Certainly grip ain't a problem...The single "best" thing about the chnagesmade to my XR, aside from hogging it out to 660cc (cue amercian drawl..."there ain't no substitute...") was to get a load of crap removed from the flywheel. The motor now picks up like an old tractor has no right to...

Fatman wrote

The end result uses a pilot jet considerably smaller than most people end up recommending, and the retention of the backfire screen.

This was what I was talking about earlier. I nearly bought an XR600 years back. I read tons of stuff on the web about them first, as you do. The one thing I do remember is the debate about airbox mods etc. Scott Summers seemed to have a "little success" with an XR. Check out his top ten tips for XR 600 tuning Looks like we got some good knowledge on here!!!

WHat about fork seals? More than one person has mentioned to me about how XR6s blow fork seals. A few I've seen for sale, like the one on ebay is sporting "new fork seals". Is this quite a problem then? Is there no mod for this?

Leave the fork boots on, so you don't know when they've gone?

Fatman wrote

Despite this my bike still puts out a respectable 50bhp at the rear wheel - which seems to be about the limit for most XR6's.

50bhp???My XR600 has an HRC cam, 628cc big bore, Hi-comp piston, ported head, yoshi/arrow pipe and 41mm flatslide carb and on X81's dynno read out 47bhp.What have you done to yours?Tiepin - I love XR600's - top bikes - not the lightest/fastest but they have loads of tuning bits available and they last forever.Mine never went through more than a pair of seals in it's life so I know nothing of that story.

Taipan wrote

WHat about fork seals? More than one person has mentioned to me about how XR6s blow fork seals. A few I've seen for sale, like the one on ebay is sporting "new fork seals". Is this quite a problem then? Is there no mod for this?

I'm GUESSING here, but i think blown seals are more likely to be associated with over-pressurised forks.having said that, any xr600 pilots can tell me what pressures theyve put in their front forks?(I havent messed with mine yet)

Darth Bear wrote

I'm GUESSING here, but i think blown seals are more likely to be associated with over-pressurised forks.having said that, any xr600 pilots can tell me what pressures theyve put in their front forks?(I havent messed with mine yet)

I never did. Always bled the air out once a week. But mine were revalved.Dunner has mine now - Dunner? Duuunneeeerrrrr?

Never had any problems with fork seals in 3 years and over 10k miles. However I have either had fork gaiters or slightly less baggy looking neoprene based fork protectors on. Stock valving etc...

What kind of damping adjutment do XR forks have, if any? If teh earlier ones dont have any adjustment, do people fit racetech emulators etc?

Darth Bear wrote

I'm all ears

Well, just as I was about to spit the dummy and work out how to order one from Bergos.... Allen's rang me up to tell me it had arrived in stock.Should be in the post shortly. I've been advised to use a KTM SC throttle tube + cables with it, so I guess I'll need to go find a KTM dealer now

Taipan wrote

What kind of damping adjutment do XR forks have, if any? If teh earlier ones dont have any adjustment, do people fit racetech emulators etc?

This sounds really bad but I think the forks on my 95 bike have rebound and compression damping adjustment, but no preload adjusters... They are certainly cartridge type internals.They're actually fairly decent forks, the reason I'm not sure what spec they are is I haven't felt the need to play for about 2 years! The rear shock is relatively far worse.There are several websites that list XR6 specs by model year. The high point was around 94 I think. At that time the XR had been given a disk rear brake and cartidge forks but still had magnesium crankcase covers. From that point on there were some cost cutting changes, including very minor engine de-tunes, and the obligatory colour/graphics revisions.

Fatman wrote

This sounds really bad but I think the forks on my 95 bike have rebound and compression damping adjustment, but no preload adjusters... They are certainly cartridge type internals.They're actually fairly decent forks, the reason I'm not sure what spec they are is I haven't felt the need to play for about 2 years! The rear shock is relatively far worse.There are several websites that list XR6 specs by model year. The high point was around 94 I think. At that time the XR had been given a disk rear brake and cartidge forks but still had magnesium crankcase covers. From that point on there were some cost cutting changes, including very minor engine de-tunes, and the obligatory colour/graphics revisions.

I cant find that many (english) XR600 sites? Got any urls?cheersdave

Don't know many off the top of my head... its been a while since I needed to look anything up. Try Honda Xr600 History or XR600 2nd hand guide/chronology

Fatman wrote

Don't know many off the top of my head... its been a while since I needed to look anything up. Try Honda Xr600 History or XR600 2nd hand guide/chronology

Thanks for that. I had previously discounted one of these from my shopping list. There were question marks over thier suitabilty as a daily hack for London traffic/ I'm not so sure now? Who uses their one as a commuter as well as other things? I know Hawkman used his one ok, although the way he rode through London, I think he did actually thought he was offroading not commuting My aircooled CCMs jetting used to suffer a bit in heavy London summer traffic. Is the XR the same?Is the servicing easy? How long does it take for an oiland filter change? What about service intervals? How long do you go between oil changes?Are there any "must dos" with these bikes?

Taipan wrote

Who uses their one as a commuter as well as other things?

Although I don't now I did commute on my XR for about a year. I was a bit nervous commuting a tuned bike but it was fine apart from some interesting moments with carb icing when it got really cold (beard fozen to inside of helmet type cold! Never again...). The journey was about 35 miles each way including some motorway work. No worries.The motor does get a little woolly when stuck in traffic, but nothing unrideable. If ya paranoid you can buy oil cooler kits.Servicing is pretty easy, and I tend to change the oil every 1-2k cos it tends to take a bit of a thrashing. When I was commuting on it I stertched the chnages out a bit more to 3k. The only problem I've had with the motor was the camchain tensioner failing one day when the bike kicked back. Luckily there was no damage elsewhere, although the cam was starting to show some signs of wear so I got it repaired. The rest of the engine, inc the big piston were fine... 2 1/2 years, over 10k on the tuned motor.

Fatman wrote

...on the tuned motor.

Ok - How did you tune it to get 50bhp? Just curious.

futter wrote

Ok - How did you tune it to get 50bhp? Just curious.

ISTR speaking to you on the phone ages ago...you caught me just before I was getting on a plane. I also post on the yahoo supermoto list. Anyhow the recipe is...Take one stock 1995 Xr600. Add a Honda Dominator barrell lovingly bored to accept a 102.6mm Wiseco piston. Gas flow the head etc and swap the stock cam for a spanking new White Bros 1652 road/race replacement. Rebuild motor after carefully subjecting the flywheel to a major diet. Junk crappy exhaust system and replace with White borx E series can and huge headers. Cut top completely off airbox, insert twin air filter, rejet and bake on dyno for several days...

I remember - were you fatman then?

A copy from an old topic..."....XR600 tuning tips...From someone with a few year xr600 experience(....10/12 years).If you want to go cheap AND nice power you can do this:-grind the welds inside the orig. headers (little more top end)-you can also match the exhaust ports with the headers(30mm)-make the intake piece smooth and match perfectly with the head (with a Dremel)-high compr. cheap? Put a thinner gasket under the cilinder(home made) or deck the head.-lap the valves (for more low end and torque)-modify your airbox: vented side panel(more flow = more go) AND ALWAYS modify yours jets AND needle ,pilot 65 or 68, main jet 165/168 and up(state of tuning...),needle second to top or top pos.,otherwise you have that" sucking" feeling (= too lean).Twin Air filter or other aftermarket-a carb from a XR650 works very well on a 600,with smaller(!)jets(60/62 and 160/162)-make the flywheel lighter (300/400gr)(more throttle respons+revs)-remove the auto-decompr. system on the cam,all the pieces :also the little spring in the head under the cam and close the lubrif. holes in the cam under the auto -decompr.The expensive mods come later(the +50back wh.hp ones)..." Others:- CRD headers (work well)- Mikuni TM40- HRC Cam- Wiseco 102.4 mm HC- oil cooler from Citroën 2CV- remove resistor from spark plug cap (+ 500 rmp)

Wow! Nice post! Cheers. About this flywheel lightening, tell me more? I s this a sneaky little trick, or a widely accepted modification?

futter wrote

I remember - were you fatman then?

Have spent most of my time lurking here, but post a bit more frequently on the yahoo supermoto list as jrsavery.

Taipan wrote

About this flywheel lightening, tell me more? Is this a sneaky little trick, or a widely accepted modification?

AFAIK its a fairly common thing, especially when trying to liven up an old lump like an XR. I think older 4 stroke dirt bikes tended to use realtively larger flywheels than modern tackle to soften the power delivery and provide more grip and make it easier to plonk along at low speed. Nowadays then trend seem to be for more revs and top end... WR, CRF etc.However on the road in SM trim this ain't a problem and the faster pickup makes the motor feel much more lively. Isn't too complicated either. The only real rpoblem it caused with my bike was making it idle well afterwards. Without the extra rotating mass to turn the engine over when it "coughed" (...just as the lights go green when you're sat between rows of traffic in central London for example... lovely sense of humour) it'd stall. A bit of messing with the cam timing, valve clearances, and pilot air screw sorted it.

hi fatman - I new you on the other site!! While we're on a thread about XR6ers does anyone want a cd-rom microfiche - exploded diagrams and Honda part numbers? These are available on the internet (at Ronnie's I believe), but I took the trouble of saving them all onto a disk.PM me if you want one (hope demand ain't gunna be too big and I'll do 'em FOC )And are steering head bearings an easy jobby. Mine are facked from practising wheelies. Still no good, but now bearings are shot .How much for the parts? And any special tools? Any good tips too? (manual says refridgerate races to get 'em on easier)cheers :burnout:

I did the head bearings on my 650 without too much grief.The inner races come out easy, the out races need a suitable drift to tap them out with.Once you've got the old ones out, then you need to get the new outer races in. I didn't have any bearing press jobbers, so put a screwdriver through the old outer bearings and ran em up against a bench grinder (have to do it at an angle, otherwise bearing just matches grinder's speed) until the old bearing slides in and out of the steering head freely.you can then use this to tap the new bearing outer all the way home, without worrying about how you're gonna get it unstuck.Plenty of grease, and adjust and tighten up the stem, and you're pretty much there.

Those parts diagrams sound good, any chance of a copy?

BOING!!!!I'm still reading up on XR6s. Anyone fitted different springs, like Eibachs (SP?) or progressives? If so where did you get them from and how much.What about the TM40, best price and where from?CheersDave

Cheapest way to get a TM40 as far as I know is from bergos in germany.www.bergos.deCan't order over the internet, seemingly because of restrictive German credit card laws.[email]axel@bergos.de[/email] is pretty helpful - they'll sort out what you want and invoice you. Once you've sorted payment (I think they like an international money order, which costs a bit - £35 ish I think) then they'll send the stuff out.I got mine from Allens in Nottingham (sole (AFAIK) UK distributor) cos I thought it'd be less hassle. I'm not sure it's working out like that at the minute. Throttle cables are proving a pain.

stoo wrote

Cheapest way to get a TM40 as far as I know is from bergos in germany.www.bergos.deCan't order over the internet, seemingly because of restrictive German credit card laws.[email]axel@bergos.de[/email] is pretty helpful - they'll sort out what you want and invoice you. Once you've sorted payment (I think they like an international money order, which costs a bit - £35 ish I think) then they'll send the stuff out.I got mine from Allens in Nottingham (sole (AFAIK) UK distributor) cos I thought it'd be less hassle. I'm not sure it's working out like that at the minute. Throttle cables are proving a pain.

Cheers Stoo. I'm asking some mates in the States. See what one costs there? Cant you get the cables from Xrsonly.com? Or have you tried venhill see if they have the right cable on thier books? Looking at XRsonly prices it seems teh mikuni (assuming thats the TM40?) is $229.95, which works out about £140. Obviously you gotta get it here then. How does that price compare to where you got yours? I may ring HM C&E and ask how much taxes/import duty etc would cost to import one (should I get caught)? I might fire an email off to XRs only, see about cables etc.

[QUOTE]Originally dribbled by motopat [B]hi fatman - I new you on the other site!! While we're on a thread about XR6ers does anyone want a cd-rom microfiche - exploded diagrams and Honda part numbers? These are available on the internet (at Ronnie's I believe), but I took the trouble of saving them all onto a disk.PM me if you want one (hope demand ain't gunna be too big and I'll do 'em FOC )QUOTE]Motopat, You got mail

PM XRCOL about how to order from bergos he bought carb+pipe from them for small KUDOS

Taipan wrote

Cheers Stoo. I'm asking some mates in the States. See what one costs there? Cant you get the cables from Xrsonly.com? Or have you tried venhill see if they have the right cable on thier books? Looking at XRsonly prices it seems teh mikuni (assuming thats the TM40?) is $229.95, which works out about £140. Obviously you gotta get it here then. How does that price compare to where you got yours? I may ring HM C&E and ask how much taxes/import duty etc would cost to import one (should I get caught)? I might fire an email off to XRs only, see about cables etc.

I paid about £205. Should have been + VAT too, but got away with that :smoke:I wasn't worried about cables, because when X81 fitted 3banana's TM40, they used a set of KTM SC cables and twist grip. This sounded like a good idea for 2 reasons : 1. Tried and tested.2. Larger radius jobber on the twist grip means faster action throttle - so only a quarter turn - means no letting go and grabbing again. Only trouble was, the cables were a bit tight on 3bananas apparently, but not tight enough to cause a problem. On mine, there's no way they'll work. They need to be 8cm longer to have enough slack for me to be happy. If X81 can't sort us out a set, then I'll go to Venhill direct with some measurements.

stoo wrote

I paid about £205. Should have been + VAT too, but got away with that :smoke:I wasn't worried about cables, because when X81 fitted 3banana's TM40, they used a set of KTM SC cables and twist grip. This sounded like a good idea for 2 reasons : 1. Tried and tested.2. Larger radius jobber on the twist grip means faster action throttle - so only a quarter turn - means no letting go and grabbing again. Only trouble was, the cables were a bit tight on 3bananas apparently, but not tight enough to cause a problem. On mine, there's no way they'll work. They need to be 8cm longer to have enough slack for me to be happy. If X81 can't sort us out a set, then I'll go to Venhill direct with some measurements.

I had to get a custom cable made up by venhill. Ithink it was about £25 to the door. Reading the xronly website their mikunis come iwth cable and airbox adaptor etc. I suspect it will still cost more than getting it here, by the time HM C&E have taken thier whack. But it might be easier if its just a bolt on?

If you could get one of the merkin dudes to get it for you and post it on as something nondescript - mebbe marked up as a present or used spares or samples or something, you may be able to blag your way out of some of the taxes that way.Even better if you can find someone who's coming across from the US to here who'll smuggle it over for ya

My ktm exc cables come off the twistgrip towards the rider side of the bars xr's go the long way round, xrcol could give you his opinion better than me though, also going by recent threads wrsm knows a throttle cable supplier who can make to order.

asylum seeker wrote

My ktm exc cables come off the twistgrip towards the rider side of the bars xr's go the long way round, xrcol could give you his opinion better than me though, also going by recent threads wrsm knows a throttle cable supplier who can make to order.

Man - I've spent a lot of time playing with different routing options. Can claw back a bit of length, but not enough.At one point, I had the twist grip mounted upside down, with the cables going straight under the tank, not hooked around the fork leg or between the bars and top yoke or owt, AND going the near side of the top spar of the frame instead of the far side, like the proper cable.It just ain't long enough.I spent most of this evening trying to make up a set of cables to bodge on as a test, using assorted bits and bobs - some from motorbikes, some from pushbike brakes Came unstuck with finding solderless nipples small enough to fit in the twistgrip without fouling the movement.Gonna try digging out the soldering kit next and seeing what comes of that......

OK i'll say it ONCE KTM you know it makes sense. OK twice uglyberg only cos you know im right. BTW I still think XR'S rule but with £4 GRAND sitting out + the price of spares + leccy boot advantage .ORANGE ROOLS. F@CK RED BULL MAKES YOU DISLUSUNAL(sp) some one will be along soon to tell me to go to bed and tell me to SHUT THE F@CK UP.

asylum seeker wrote

OK i'll say it ONCE KTM you know it makes sense. OK twice uglyberg only cos you know im right. BTW I still think XR'S rule but with £4 GRAND sitting out + the price of spares + leccy boot advantage .ORANGE ROOLS. F@CK RED BULL MAKES YOU DISLUSUNAL(sp) some one will be along soon to tell me to go to bed and tell me to SHUT THE F@CK UP.

Thank you stoo.

Taipan wrote

I may ring HM C&E and ask how much taxes/import duty etc would cost to import one (should I get caught)?

ISTR its something like 20% duty, and then VAT on top of that for motorcycle parts... Still not convinced its worth all the hassle myself, but then again if I were to find one at a good price I'd probably take the plunge... can never resist a shinny new gadget!

Fatman wrote

ISTR its something like 20% duty, and then VAT on top of that for motorcycle parts... Still not convinced its worth all the hassle myself, but then again if I were to find one at a good price I'd probably take the plunge... can never resist a shinny new gadget!

I wanted to buy some bike gear form teh states once. I thought i'd check out teh worse case scenario price, if customs pulled it and charged me. A very helpful lady asked me what material it was? Zips or buttons? etc. I said does it really make that much differnce. She said, Sir I am trying to find the cheapest way for you. Once she found out it wasn't motorcycle leathers but textiles, she ssaid to lable teh customs declaration thingy as protective/safety gear. This apparently is no vat or soemthing. Theiving robbing bastids they may be, but they was very helpful theiving robbing bastids that time! I'll check with them later, if I get a chance. cheersDave

Taipan wrote

... Sir I am trying to find the cheapest way for you...

Of course the cheapest way is to just use the stock carb... have you tried an XR with & without an aftermarket carb? If it ain't (completely) broke...

Log in or register to post comments

Follow Visordown

Latest Bike News

Crash Media Group
Visordown is part of the CMG Full Throttle Network© : welcoming over 3 million consumers each month