When is a roadbike an SM?

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calvin

28/09/2004 at 12:05

Seems to me that in the search for more and more individuallity the line between Road Legal Super Motards and Actual Road bikes is getting more and more fuzzy. I mean both in the eyes of the law are road bikes, and both have road tyres. Neither go off road, well hardly ever, well OK sometimes.

So I get me Z1300 strip everything off it put some ill fitting plastics on it is it a road going SM. No I don't think so.

The actual requirements for a racing and road going Motards are streets apart in their requirements from their riders, so even though the two classifications appear the same they have completely different functions.

So what makes a Road going Motard an SM and not a road Bike?

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2005

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Today I will be mostly on the verge of indecision.

supermofo

28/09/2004 at 12:23

hmmmmm
very difficult to tell if you ask me and people will argue themself round in circles as to what is a SM or not.
Most Race SM seem to me to actually be racing MX or enduro bikes converted to SM. Where as most (but not all) off the shelf bikes are roadbikes. But whats a SM and whats a road bike?????? ie most people say a Duke II is a street moto (roadbike) not a SM but then most people regard the LC4 as a supermoto when its the same bike barring the bodywork.
Personnally I would call most of the euro bikes SM as even if they are mainly road bikes they were often originally more hardcore SMs of yester-year. The lines are blurring thou with the new Jap bikes who are taking the intrest in SM and giving people old roadgoing bikes in SM clothes, Ie the new honda/dominator thing.
Well thats my two pence worth and probably all worng but there you go.

Look Ma! No Brains!

freekb

28/09/2004 at 12:35

calvin wrote

Seems to me that in the search for more and more individuallity the line between Road Legal Super Motards and Actual Road bikes is getting more and more fuzzy. I mean both in the eyes of the law are road bikes, and both have road tyres. Neither go off road, well hardly ever, well OK sometimes.

So I get me Z1300 strip everything off it put some ill fitting plastics on it is it a road going SM. No I don't think so.

The actual requirements for a racing and road going Motards are streets apart in their requirements from their riders, so even though the two classifications appear the same they have completely different functions.

So what makes a Road going Motard an SM and not a road Bike?

To me, the key difference is <150kg weight, long-travel quality suspension and lack of expensive fairing bits to replace.

calvin

28/09/2004 at 12:43

freekb wrote

To me, the key difference is <150kg weight, long-travel quality suspension and lack of expensive fairing bits to replace.

I guess Everone knows what it is, my question is what makes it that way, considering the requirements of Road use.

Personally I think its a life style thingy all started by the use of too much power (which is never enough) requiring massive breaks and tiny weight to be really effective. Giving rise to purists and non purists.

FBOLB 0 (pathetic)
SG#244
Crashometer 2004

(damn animated walls)

(Damn hiden tar pits)

(damn hiden cravasses)
Weeks in hospitalometer 2004

2005

(damn drain pipes)
----------------------------------------------------
Today I will be mostly on the verge of indecision.

notslow

28/09/2004 at 13:00

A supermoto bike is a motorcross bike with a set of road wheels simple as.

freekb

28/09/2004 at 13:02

calvin wrote

I guess Everone knows what it is, my question is what makes it that way, considering the requirements of Road use.

Personally I think its a life style thingy all started by the use of too much power (which is never enough) requiring massive breaks and tiny weight to be really effective. Giving rise to purists and non purists.

Y'mean motards are defined by being underpowered compared to 'normal' road bikes, but still competitive?

Yo-yo

28/09/2004 at 13:03

notslow wrote

A supermoto bike is a motorcross bike with a set of road wheels simple as.

So by your own definition, you don't ride a supermoto then do you?

calvin

28/09/2004 at 13:19

freekb wrote

Y'mean motards are defined by being underpowered compared to 'normal' road bikes, but still competitive?

Er.... no ..... perhaps I havn't made myself clear, I will try again.

Racing Motards are specifically designed for a single purpose to win races.

Road going motards are muti-functional, perhaps slow commuting, perhaps fast commuting so why do so many of us ride racing machines on the road. It surely can't be because its a laff.....

Can it?

I mean come on it can't be as simple as that.

FBOLB 0 (pathetic)
SG#244
Crashometer 2004

(damn animated walls)

(Damn hiden tar pits)

(damn hiden cravasses)
Weeks in hospitalometer 2004

2005

(damn drain pipes)
----------------------------------------------------
Today I will be mostly on the verge of indecision.

notslow

28/09/2004 at 14:05

Yo-yo wrote

So by your own definition, you don't ride a supermoto then do you?

If you put a motorcross bike next to a supermoto bike, the main difference between then is the wheels.
The engine, styling and suspention are pretty much the same it's just the motor cross will use knoblies and a large front wheel for the dirt and a supermoto use's smaller road wheels for the tarmac.
Obviously there are some differences but essencialy there the same.
Well Thats my opinion any way.

captaincardigan

28/09/2004 at 14:30

I'm in with Notslow on this.

As I understand it the original Supermotos were put together by French loonies converting MX/Enduro bikes for tarmac and dirt riding.

Any fuzziness created by (mainly Japanese) manufacturers trying to project a lifestyle thing is just big corp highjacking of minority interests to feed sanitised versions to the masses - bit like lawyers pretending to be Hell's Angels on overdressed Hardly Ablesons IMHO

CaptainCardigan
Crashometer - Off The Flippin' Scale :burnout:

Dutch

28/09/2004 at 15:09

Exactly. Supermotos are bikes originally built to be quick off-road (MX or Enduro) which have been fitted with road wheels. Anything else isn't really a supermoto.

Bikes that "look" supermoto are simply a styling exercise. Doesn't make 'em crap bikes, but they're not motos.

Dukes are a slight exception, as they're basically the LC4 with shorter travel suspension and different bodywork - so they have parts 'n soul of a bike orginally built to compete off-road. If you disagree, ride both back to back. The difference is there, but it's not major. (It's kinda the reverse of the newer fake "road" motos, cos it's more like a real supermoto disguised as a road bike)

LC4s may seen lardy these days compared to WRs and 5252s, but they were competitive off-road bikes before they were superceded. I had a road going blue-motor LC4 Crosser in about 1988 which was off-road 90% of the time.

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supermofo

28/09/2004 at 15:15

I must admit that seeing as the French seem to be the main originators of the idea (I know it's supposed to have started in the states but..). When I was in the south of France a few weeks back I was struck more by the ethos of off road bike on the road than trick SM. No excel wheels here, just off road bike on road, big single cylinder engine + tight mountain roads = top fookin laugh. And I think that sums it up really, a massive laugh.

Look Ma! No Brains!

Pirahna

28/09/2004 at 15:51

So what about the bloke that raced a Speed Triple in SM? Or the bloke racing the Ducati Monster? Or the Italian who races an SV650 in enduro?

Nik Samson

28/09/2004 at 16:02

Pirahna wrote

So what about the bloke that raced a Speed Triple in SM? Or the bloke racing the Ducati Monster? Or the Italian who races an SV650 in enduro?

They're loonies ...

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captaincardigan

28/09/2004 at 16:33

Pirahna wrote

So what about the bloke that raced a Speed Triple in SM? Or the bloke racing the Ducati Monster? Or the Italian who races an SV650 in enduro?

So if someone turns up on a KTM 625, or a Husky 510 to a clubman race does that make their SM a Sportsbikes then?

BTW - I suspect that the Riple was only allowed in for the first year of racing to help make up numbers - haven't seen many of the top SM boys exactly queuing up to follow suit

CaptainCardigan
Crashometer - Off The Flippin' Scale :burnout:

Wolfbane

28/09/2004 at 17:01

its the diffrence between me and you!!

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Nik Samson

28/09/2004 at 17:06

captaincardigan wrote

BTW - I suspect that the Riple was only allowed in for the first year of racing to help make up numbers

Err, no, the same bloke is still racing a Buell in the series ...

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captaincardigan

28/09/2004 at 17:23

Nik Samson wrote

Err, no, the same bloke is still racing a Buell in the series ...

Happy to stand corrected, the bloke is clearly a loon and the exception to all known rules - which makes him a top fella in my anarchic book

However the point still stands that Ripple, Blewoil and Duckati are not exactly bikes anyone doing real SM (ie including real dirt sections and proper jumps, as well as twisty tarmac) put top of their list of must haves.

CaptainCardigan
Crashometer - Off The Flippin' Scale :burnout:

Nik Samson

28/09/2004 at 17:29

captaincardigan wrote

However the point still stands that Ripple, Blewoil and Duckati are not exactly bikes anyone doing real SM (ie including real dirt sections and proper jumps, as well as twisty tarmac) put top of their list of must haves.

I'm fairly sure he'd disagree with you ...

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