Clarity on T's & C's.

I need to know, been bugging me for a while now.

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years now at not inconsiderable expense and time to myself. This was expressly and solely to benefit the biking community.  Am I right in thinking Magicalia can now pluck anything I've done from the VD database and use it to fill column inches and profit from it?

I'm not asking if it WILL happen, but CAN it happen?  I don't like the idea of my time, money and effort being redirected into making profit for a third party rather than benefiting the people it was intended for.

If TWO want to do a security feature than I will make myself available and charge accordingly.

If it is the case that anything in the database can be harvested and published without permission of the originator, then can the T's & C's be changed to something more respectful of people's contributions?

Zanx (hoping to be proved wrong).

For reference:

Unless you request otherwise in writing any Content provided by you by, for example, posting messages to bulletin boards or chat forums, uploading files, inputting data, or engaging in any other form of communication through this Website, although owned by you, is subject to a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, unrestricted, world-wide licence allowing Magicalia to use, distribute, copy, sub-license, adapt, transmit, publicly perform or display any such content. You agree to irrevocably and unconditionally waive on your behalf in perpetuity in respect of such Content the benefit of any provision of law known as moral rights of authors or any similar law in any country.

You can send an email to stuff@visordown.com and make your wishes known.

So, CAN it happen? Yes, but only if you decide to let it.

An email with a certified read receipt should be plenty good enough.

And if you click on "in writing" (its a linky see) it sends a mail to stuff@vd. 

May I draw M'Learned Friend's attention to:

 http://www.visordown.com/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=374756&URN=1&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=2&v=2&sp=

For which I am awaiting a reply.  My reading of it is that we [the copyright holders] must provide written, signed, assignation to allow use - NOT apply for some exemption. 

Dutch wrote (see)

1. Being opted-in. The data protection act implies it's illegal, but even putting that aside for interpretation, the real issue here is that we have all had our profile info transferred from one database systme to another - without our input - so unless you actually look into it, you have no idea you're being opted-in. That is wrong, and definitely illegal.

(If you join a new site and are opted-in when you go thru signup, at least you can SEE it, and choose to opt-out. Here, we've been opted-in without it being visible)

Similarly the requirement to opt-out of relinquishing copyright.  While it's a small step forward that MA haven't continued with the T&Cs used on other boards, it isn't a full - and still not legal - answer.

From what I've read and seen quoted from definitive sources, it is a legal requirement that permission is given in writing to allow re-use, not a situation where and opt-out is appropriate or legal.

These seem to spell it out.  Following Abel's advice, I emailed MA some time ago about this, but never received an acknowledgment or reply.  

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy/c-claim/c-auto.htm

There is no official registration system for copyright in the United Kingdom (UK) and most other parts of the world. There are no forms to fill in and no fees to pay to get copyright protection.

So long as you have created a work that qualifies for copyright protection, that is it falls into one of the categories of material protected by copyright, you will have copyright protection without having to do anything to establish this. It is a requirement of various international conventions on copyright that copyright should be automatic with no need to register.

 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/ukpga_19880048_en_5#pt1-ch5-pb1-l1g90

90 Assignment and licences

 1) Copyright is transmissible by assignment, by testamentary disposition or by operation of law, as personal or moveable property.

(3) An assignment of copyright is not effective unless it is in writing signed by or on behalf of the assignor.

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Zanx wrote (see)

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years

Bike Breaker wrote (see)

Zanx wrote (see)

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years

Are you a bike thief?

Why, are you wanting to buy stolen bikes to break?

Zanx is a top man out to make sure we're not sold crap security products, and has played a big part in testing stuff to destruction, often at bikeshows and online in video. He's also the sort of bloke who will put himself out to help strangers at the drop of a hat, just cos he knows them via the forum, so that's a pretty shit response to his post.

www.thebikeshed.cc

Bike Breaker wrote (see)

Zanx wrote (see)

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years

Are you a bike thief?

Yeah, it's a great living, unlimited supply of poorly secured bikes, minimal chance of getting caught and even if I do get caught, it's community service at the most.  Good money too.

Horse, thank you.

To any Magicalia bods reading, make sure your legal team are 100% sure on this one because VD has some VERY smart, well connected and well qualified people who would love to make a meal of this issue.

Dutch wrote (see)

Bike Breaker wrote (see)

Zanx wrote (see)

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years

Are you a bike thief?

Why, are you wanting to buy stolen bikes to break?

Zanx is a top man out to make sure we're not sold crap security products, and has played a big part in testing stuff to destruction, often at bikeshows and online in video. He's also the sort of bloke who will put himself out to help strangers at the drop of a hat, just cos he knows them via the forum, so that's a pretty shit response to his post.

Zanx wrote (see)

Dutch wrote (see)

Bike Breaker wrote (see)

Zanx wrote (see)

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years

Are you a bike thief?

Why, are you wanting to buy stolen bikes to break?

Zanx is a top man out to make sure we're not sold crap security products, and has played a big part in testing stuff to destruction, often at bikeshows and online in video. He's also the sort of bloke who will put himself out to help strangers at the drop of a hat, just cos he knows them via the forum, so that's a pretty shit response to his post.

He might not have known, better to be challenged than not.

Zanx, please accept my apologies. I intended the comment as a joke and in no way believed or wanted anyone else to think you are actually dishonest. In the 'good old days' I'd have posted the shocked smiley but I don't know what the new ones mean. Imagine the damage if I used the wrong one..........

Bike Breaker wrote (see)

Zanx wrote (see)

Dutch wrote (see)

Bike Breaker wrote (see)

Zanx wrote (see)

 I've been testing motorcycle security for over three years

Are you a bike thief?

Why, are you wanting to buy stolen bikes to break?

Zanx is a top man out to make sure we're not sold crap security products, and has played a big part in testing stuff to destruction, often at bikeshows and online in video. He's also the sort of bloke who will put himself out to help strangers at the drop of a hat, just cos he knows them via the forum, so that's a pretty shit response to his post.

He might not have known, better to be challenged than not.

Zanx, please accept my apologies. I intended the comment as a joke and in no way believed or wanted anyone else to think you are actually dishonest. In the 'good old days' I'd have posted the shocked smiley but I don't know what the new ones mean. Imagine the damage if I used the wrong one..........

zanx - this might clear things up for you

sean fishpool wrote:

"Sorry guys, I PM'd Horse last night to say that Ben would be posting a decent reply today, but I should have said that on this thread

In a nutshell he'll be saying

• we arsed up the handling of - ironically - some of the most sensitive bits of this changeover, ie privacy and copyright, and compounded it with a tech problem (the inability to change settings without adding more details) -- and we're sorry. We'd been focussing too much on the basic tech bits of the job

• email addresses will never be handed over to any third party; Magicalia has never done that except where you enter competetions that specifically say 'by entering this competition you agree that...'. The third-party tickbox on your My Forum page means we can send you emails on behalf of bike companies, retailers etc, but they come from promotions@visordown. They all include an opt-out link. We should have made it clearer, earlier, that we had added that setting; an explanatory email was going to be sent (and will be). We may have made some errors but we didn't go as far as thinking that taking the Visordown member list and selling it to spammers would be a smart policy for keeping a community together  

• The copyright question in T&Cs he's still putting together, but as a starting point nothing from threads in old Visordown will be used away from the site.

He'll obviously put this rather less clumsily than I have... "

the thread is here http://www.visordown.com/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=374756&URN=1&dt=1&srchdte=0&cp=3&v=2&sp=

shame you cant link to a particular post on a thread...oh, and quote is fucked again.

laters potatos!

That thread has progressed on . . .

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

It's a difficult one Zanx and while what has been posted here seems to be true individuals are still left at risk which is why I requested that all my posts that were ported over from the old site be deleted...

If, Magicalia decided to use posts from here and publish them elsewhere without your written consent then the onus is on YOU to not only prove they did it but also you would need to prove that it was indeed yourself who created the original (not easy when they have complet controll of the database eh ?), you would also need to prove that you opted out of their terms and conditions (don't go reformating that hard drive will you)

Proving these things can come at considerable expense and taking court action could cost a lot more

I don't personally have anything here of significant value as far as I can recal/tell but you never know, in your case you may well have cause for concern, my objections were based in principal (a little sad I know but nevertheless still valid)

Like I said before it comes down to trust (remember you're dealing with magazine reporters here).

If it's a non issue and there is no intention to ever use items from here then why did Magicalia put it in the T&C's ?

PS

Some recomendations..

If you don't want something stolen then don't put it on public display

If it's for public benefit and needs to be displayed to have it's desired effect then firstly type it out in a word processor and save it on your computer before posting it anywhere public, also print out a copy as a permanent record (make sure it is dated)

Those who have control over a database can very easily alter anything in it, including the name of the originator, the date it was posted as well as it's content, information can also be fabricated with ease, so if you rely on the posts as your evidence then you're on flimsy ground

Think along the same lines as you do with your own security advice and you won't go too far wrong

Cupid, I never knew that the Internet stuff could be taken - thanks for telling me.

You might need to look at things like this to see  why it's important:

http://www.survivalskills.co.uk/shop.html

http://www.survivalskills.co.uk/rskills.htm

That's The Spin Doctor's site - he makes a living from this stuff.  But he's still kind enough to post much of it up an here for free - but he doesn't want it taken without permission or attribution.

However, if what you're saying is taken very literally, wave bye-bye to Survival Skills section of Visordown.  You might like to teall MAgicalia too.

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Cupid Stunt wrote (see)

 you would also need to prove that you opted out of their terms and conditions

Still waiting for acknowledgement of my e-mail . . .

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

{Quote still not working...}

So am I.

Captain Blue

Doing a trackday is like making love to a beautiful woman: you need to have a good close look at your ride, make sure she's not too unwieldy and then when she's warmed up, ride her hard and fast for a number of 20 minute sessions

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