Trackdays - Have Your Say (read Before Placing A Post)

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26/10/2007 at 07:44

tommyrocket wrote

come off it mate you've been taking the piss for about 3 days so don't start gettin on your high horse......... go and patronise your novices.

well said clankatank.

I`ve took the piss out of other instructors, Its not a high horse its a case of you lot not being happy with the way things are done but not doing anything about it, all you do is bitch behind a keyboard, you tell me to go patronise the novices maybe you should remember you were one once and probably still are, ANYBODY WHO PAYS MONEY FOR SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT HAPPY WITH IS A MUG................

26/10/2007 at 07:49

Clanktank wrote

Boohoohoo! Now fuck off to the other thread where you and your clique'y instructor mates are pretending to not know eachother and bitch about eachothers riding and personal habits, cos were not interested in how tough it is for you.
We pay our money for a decent service which some of the time we don't get, and to hear you slagging us off on a thread for suggesting how things could be improved really isn't helping your case or giving the impression of a caring and listening TDO.

Oh, and put 240 riders on the road and I'm pretty sure all 240 will come back safe and sound. How many people commute on bikes every day with no fatalities? You've been reading too much propaganda from the goverment, police and Daily Mail matey.

Are you saying that there are no rider fatalities on a daily basis,

CaptainBlue

26/10/2007 at 07:57

flashart wrote

Oh and REF to prices, this is something I was shown recently, not for Donnie I know and there a bit out of date but gives you an idea

OK, based on that, let's do some sums:

£12,250 plus VAT = £14,393.75.

38 (I think) max. per group less 3 instructors and maybe 2 from the TDO = 99 riders.

Basic cost per rider £145.

So to break even, you need to fill your entire day @ £145. Then you need to somehow include for the insurances, operating and advertising costs, a second ambulance and crew in some cases - you don't want the day curtailed because there's no medical cover if they're carting a faller off to hospital.

On the basis that you should allow for not being able to fill the day just in case - especially if the stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap boys are there the same week, let's go for 80 riders. That means basic cost per rider is £180.

And who'd honestly pay that for a mickey mouse go-cart circuit (IMHO)?

No wonder I've seen reports of TDOs running 4 groups...

Captain Blue

Doing a trackday is like making love to a beautiful woman: you need to have a good close look at your ride, make sure she's not too unwieldy and then when she's warmed up, ride her hard and fast for a number of 20 minute sessions

johnnybravo

26/10/2007 at 09:29

was at brands on monday and not sure if it was cos i was stepping up to fast for the first time, or the fact that the guy doing the briefing was more charismatic/to the point than others i've heard but the briefing was pretty decent. he mentioned the services but didn't lay it on thick, and rattled through the safety points with the MSV guy duely checking off. everyone seemed to be paying attention too.

also had a guy come up to me after one of the sessions to ask if it was me that the organisors thought he'd stood up. to be honest, i was struggling to remember at the time, but think i know what they were referring to and was too close/a bit daft, and they'd had a word with him for it.

100% agree about the hire of paddock stands and warmers. not only would it cut down on the first lap heros lobbing machinery, but if you have no transport as i dont, its hard work trying to organise to get people to bring the gear for me. from an organiser's point of view, i'm amazed they dont do it more as there must be a huge potential margin in it.

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CaptainBlue

26/10/2007 at 09:45

What's so difficult about building things up for your your first two or three laps to get the tyres up to temperature?

It's not a race, after all...

Captain Blue

johnnybravo

26/10/2007 at 09:56

didn't anything was wrong with it mate, just that for those of us that would prefer to go out with warm tyres, having an easy access option would be a positive which i foolishly believed that was what this thread was about?

i'm not saying you have to use em, but personally would rather concentrate on settling into a rythmn and build my speed rather than wrestling the bike whilst the tyres fill out and wondering if they've got enough heat in 'em yet. not to mention the wear you save on the tyres from not heat cycling them and getting cold sheer.

and not being funny, but if people are dropping their bikes on cold tyres, and have been warned to warm their tyres, and still want to push on and risk a lob, they seem to be ideal candidates for warmers.

its not a race, but its not a cruise either.

littleblue

26/10/2007 at 10:39

if you want warmers, go and buy them, decent TD ones can be bought for £90... so why add another thing in for the TD to organise, in hiring them out, taking deposits off people as some will not return them at the end of the day..... if you want warmers, then buy them. if your riding to a TD, have you considered how you would get home, if you had an off? thats why so many people hav trailers and vans

johnnybravo

26/10/2007 at 10:50

if you re-read my post you'll notice that i mentioned i have trouble getting my gear to the track - i already own HWW warmers, and harris stands. you tried carrying paddock stands on a motorbike? reasonably tricky.

i'm not suggesting they do it as an act of charity - i believe there is margin in it for them. the deposit is supposed to cover the risk of someone being a cheeky ponce, and they have their names, confirmed on the driving licences so its not like its that much of a punt. take the driving licence off them as security. there are plenty of ways that this can be done. its clearly up to them to decide if reward outways the effort. this thread is 'supposed' to be about what we'd like to see/have on trackdays

dont know what the fuck your point is about 'the hassle for the TDO'. the TDO are 'organisers', this is what they do, for money, as a job, a proffession, work undertaken for remunation. how much time do you think it takes for them to dish out 10-20 warmers? or just hire out stands etc

i might have an off? really, thought never occurred to me. must be nice to have the available funds to buy a track bike, a car, a trailer, arrange for parking and storage etc. nonce

CaptainBlue

26/10/2007 at 11:13

johnnybravo wrote

and not being funny, but if people are dropping their bikes on cold tyres, and have been warned to warm their tyres, and still want to push on and risk a lob, they seem to be ideal candidates for warmers.

More like ideal candidates for a Darwin Award

johnnybravo wrote

if you re-read my post you'll notice that i mentioned i have trouble getting my gear to the track - i already own HWW warmers, and harris stands. you tried carrying paddock stands on a motorbike? reasonably tricky.

...

dont know what the fuck your point is about 'the hassle for the TDO'. the TDO are 'organisers', this is what they do, for money, as a job, a proffession, work undertaken for remunation. how much time do you think it takes for them to dish out 10-20 warmers? or just hire out stands etc

Well I'd quite like to turn up to a trackday and have a team of mechanics ready to prep. my bike and massage my shoulders and then be led out to the start of each session by a brolly dolly.

But I don't have those facilities with me and it's only fairly recently I've started driving up with the bike on a trailer and my tools in the back of the car.

You're saying the TDO is supposed to lay on 10-20 sets - what happens if more people wanted them? Where are all these tryre warmers supposed to be plugged in, or are they supposed to lay on generators for everyone too? Where are the TDOs supposed to store all this stuff? It's only FE - I think - that has the big wagons, isn't it?

And not all TDOs do this for their profession: some do it not for profit to increase track time for people and to ride them themselves.

Captain Blue

johnnybravo

26/10/2007 at 11:28

CaptainBlue wrote

More like ideal candidates for a Darwin Award

Well I'd quite like to turn up to a trackday and have a team of mechanics ready to prep. my bike and massage my shoulders and then be led out to the start of each session by a brolly dolly.

But I don't have those facilities with me and it's only fairly recently I've started driving up with the bike on a trailer and my tools in the back of the car.

You're saying the TDO is supposed to lay on 10-20 sets - what happens if more people wanted them? Where are all these tryre warmers supposed to be plugged in, or are they supposed to lay on generators for everyone too? Where are the TDOs supposed to store all this stuff? It's only FE - I think - that has the big wagons, isn't it?

And not all TDOs do this for their profession: some do it not for profit to increase track time for people and to ride them themselves.

now you're talking! as long as its the brolly dolly giving me the rub, rather than you geez

i dont know if you're aware of this but i know of at least one organiser that provides them, but unfortunately normally doesn't work out to be the one that is covering the dates i can make. it doesnt' have to the tdo themselves - they could have arrangements with people selling parts, or the tyre guys etc.

if more wanted? first come first served. i'd want to be pre-booking this, so they'd now what needed to be brought in advance.

personally have yet to go to a track without proper garages but am aware which tracks dont have them, and i prefer not to go there. again, if its too much hassle for particular tracks, dont provide them in those instances.

i was under the impression that the majority of the calendar dates are going to the profit TDOs at present, and one in particular has a larger market share in that respect

put it this way, if given the choice between two tdos at similar dates at the same track, and i can hire stands with one of 'em, i'm going to book that one.

CaptainBlue

26/10/2007 at 11:42

johnnybravo wrote

now you're talking! as long as its the brolly dolly giving me the rub, rather than you geez

{flounce} You're so dumped!

johnnybravo wrote

i dont know if you're aware of this but i know of at least one organiser that provides them,

No, I wasn't aware of this.

johnnybravo wrote

they could have arrangements with people selling parts, or the tyre guys etc.

Grip 'n' Rip tend to come along to the Folly days, so the customers could always sort something out directly with them?

johnnybravo wrote

one in particular has a larger market share in that respect

Yes they do. And because of that and the way they fill their days from what I've read here, they can usually undercut most of the other TDOs. As has already been said, price still seems to be the major factor

Captain Blue

pep

26/10/2007 at 11:50

CaptainBlue wrote

What's so difficult about building things up for your your first two or three laps to get the tyres up to temperature?

It's not a race, after all...

It was a cold day & I thought I was building up the temperatures in the tyres when I throw my bike down the road, It was only just above freezing though, first crash in over 25 years so maybe just a little over confident,

But back to the subject I would just like to see better policing, if I am doing anything wrong and don't know about it I can't put it right, and I think there a few people who don't know they are in the way or have bad lines and people find it hard to pass them and end up with some bad overtakes on them and this seems to be were most of the complaints come from

26/10/2007 at 12:23

Your tyres are designed to go through 5-6 heat cycles and then are knackered by using warmers they get hot in the morning and are kept hot all day till they cool down at the end, which could mean 1 heat cycle,
Cold tyre tear reduces your contact patch with the tarmac and can result in a crash just as much as cold tyres,
Trickbits UK are on most of Fe`s days and will hire warmers and stands, really though in my my opinion anybody that rides to a track day is a bit mad

CaptainBlue

26/10/2007 at 12:39

But do you need tyre warmers on road tyres? Probably not...

That may well be true of slicks.

Captain Blue

Clanktank

26/10/2007 at 12:50

orangevest wrote

I cannot believe how you lot keep slagging off tdo`s, If your that pissed off with them all start your own company and do it better,

orangevest wrote

No one has slagged you ofF you fucking mug,

You posted a collective slagging off aimed at everyone who's posted on this thread, which was supposed to be a discussion of ideas and opinions on how TDO's can improve themselves. Perhaps we should all shut up as everythings great on the other side of the fence according to you.
I took offence as you've made no contribution to this thread yourself and are annoying everyone here with your posts on other threads.

orangevest wrote

240 riders don`t commute all together do they, I`ve had 5 mates killed on the road 1 of them 3 weeks back.

oh please, nor do 240 trackdayers go out on track all at once either.

orangevest wrote

If you want to boo hoo me name your date and track and do it to my face you brave twat. none of the money you pay comes to us and like i said if your that unhappy start your own tdo or just spend the rest of your life hiding behind a computer, MUPPET

Threatening customers now, the shame.

Please post something more constructive than "if you don't like it start your own TDO".

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dodge

26/10/2007 at 13:25

anyway .......

just regarding the hiring out of tyre warmers - paddock stands etc
how much would be considered a reasonable amount to hire a set of tyre warmers & paddock stands (plus extension lead) for the day
I hire out track bikes (can't say anymore or I might be illegally advertising) and this includes tyre warmers etc etc - I was hoping to get into hiring out one peice leathers as time goes on - hadn't thought about just tyre warmers & stands - but could do it next year if there's a demand - anyhow feedback appreciated - cheers :burnout:

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Clanktank

26/10/2007 at 13:37

dodge wrote

(can't say anymore or I might be illegally advertising)

Whatever you do don't look at the link in his sig then

Good idea for the warmers and stands. Bikes I've hired in the past have had them as part of the deal, but anyone who rides to the track or hasn't got any will be overjoyed if you have some fo rent.
I reckon £15 for warmers and £15 for stands, or the lot for £25 for the day. They'll be paid for after about ten trackdays, so everything after that is profit.
The deposit will have to be quite high though as they are extremely nickable.
Not to sure about the leathers though, as you'll have to have a hell of a selection of sizes to acommodate everyone.

johnnybravo

26/10/2007 at 14:05

sounds pretty reasonable to me

if i'm taking my bike to the track, a bit extra to ensure i dont have a stupid off from cold tyres seems a pretty worthwhile investment

as a side note, i've got the bobbins on my bike but you might need to also cater to peeps without them, or ensure they realise they need them fitted for the hooks

26/10/2007 at 14:07

Clanktank wrote

You posted a collective slagging off aimed at everyone who's posted on this thread, which was supposed to be a discussion of ideas and opinions on how TDO's can improve themselves. Perhaps we should all shut up as everythings great on the other side of the fence according to you.
I took offence as you've made no contribution to this thread yourself and are annoying everyone here with your posts on other threads.

oh please, nor do 240 trackdayers go out on track all at once either.

Threatening customers now, the shame.

Please post something more constructive than "if you don't like it start your own TDO".

What would you like thats more constructive, I`ve had hundreds of bricklayers work for me and I`ve heard them all moan about all the money I make but none have the balls to start their own company put their house on the line and go skint for a few years.
You all give KH and Fe a slagging but do you think all the other tdo`s do it for the fun, they are all in it for the money the fact is Fe are the biggest tdo so that must make KH the best business man, He does loads of stuff the instructors and the ops managers don`t like but he`s the boss. Shame is we have to take the shit on a daily basis. You moan about instructors but rarely to our faces, I`m a senior instructor and if you have a complaint I`ll listen and if a bollocking is due it will be dished out.
The strange thing is on this site there`s about 5 people moaning but we get hundreds of positve emails from satisfied punters.
Where`s the threat you said boo hoo and you don`t care about my moaning but you expect me to care about yours. I can`t say it enough WE DON`T GET PAID

weeksy

26/10/2007 at 14:37

orangevest wrote

I can`t say it enough WE DON`T GET PAID

Without getting too much into the debate...

You do have bloody good fun and free tracktime though fella

I do in a way feel sorry for instructors as so few blokes actually seem to use them on a regular basis. I guess most of it is Male Bravado and bullshit, and some "he can't teach me anything".... which is a shame for them as i'm assuming they get satisfaction out of teaching people.

I do though think they could police groups and move them up and down beter than they seem to.