Pragmasis 16mm chain test.

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McNab
15/11/2007 at 11:33
choc-ice wrote
Really? What happened? What were they poor at?


Trouble with the plating causing a bad batch and the next time was the wrong type of attack There's some threads on here about it.

tronlc wrote
The first ever test they appeard in (ride mag), they won....


I didn't know that.
Nobody203
15/11/2007 at 11:37
McNab wrote
Trouble with the plating causing a bad batch and the next time was the wrong type of attack There's some threads on here about it.



I didn't know that.


The first one in Ride was the Almax II IIRC. The one with the problems was from the first batch of Almax III. Almax have stated that they changed the manufacturing process from the prototype supplied for Ride as they had to get it out in a rush to be in a test.
WUSS#1169, pipe 'n' slippers officionado. 'L'Homme Bleu qui marche plus vite', yes and keep it that way. This is also still dull

VFRs are nice, a bit like me, nice but dull :smoke:
McNab
15/11/2007 at 12:00
And in the interests of fairness, the 2nd test I mentioned (which was the wrong type of attack) caused Almax to complain to the Press complaints comission and had their complaint upheld.
Ernie Cooley
15/11/2007 at 12:01
Ok, so this thread is as long as my arm, I respect what each party is saying and uderstand that competition exists, but for the consumer, all we are concerned about is what is the best product out there.

VD/TWO have a stand at the NEC next week, a perfect opportunity for all the manufacturers to bring along their products and have them tested live in front of the audience who are more interested in the performance of these products than the wranglings of the competition.

I suggest, all the manufacturers bring along their own tools and their own locks and be given free reign to break their competitors products, it can be recorded for all to see and everyone is playing on a level playing field.

If all the manufacturers bring their products with them, then nobody can be accused of tampering the products prior to test.

Time to put this one to bed me thinks....

What say you?
tronlc
15/11/2007 at 12:03
Top Idea Ernie... TWO, what do you say?
Horse
15/11/2007 at 12:05
Ernie Cooley wrote
If all the manufacturers bring their products with them, then nobody can be accused of tampering the products prior to test.

Time to put this one to bed me thinks....

What say you?


I'd say: "Ooh look there's a pig flying by . . . and it ain't the Chiltern Air Support Unit "

IIRC Almax were told to stop testing on their stand, and forced by the show organisers to remove any 'brand' marking (ie named sleeves) from cropped chains they had displayed.

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Zeph
15/11/2007 at 12:07
Didn't the 2nd test involve a sledgehammer and an anvil ?

McNab wrote
And in the interests of fairness, the 2nd test I mentioned (which was the wrong type of attack) caused Almax to complain to the Press complaints comission and had their complaint upheld.
Ernie Cooley
15/11/2007 at 12:23
McNab wrote
And in the interests of fairness, the 2nd test I mentioned (which was the wrong type of attack) caused Almax to complain to the Press complaints comission and had their complaint upheld.


Zeph wrote
Didn't the 2nd test involve a sledgehammer and an anvil ?


Perhaps we should put out an invite to the thieving cunts who steal bikes for a living for them to test these out and perhaps they then could tell me which is the best?

I don't think they would be bothered which tools they used, other than the ones which do the job quickest?
kris_gb20
15/11/2007 at 12:33
Not many thieves drag an anvil around with them AFAIK, hence why Almax were a bit miffed...
PJEC
15/11/2007 at 12:34
kris_gb20 wrote
Not many thieves drag an anvil around with them AFAIK, hence why Almax were a bit miffed...


Exactly.
Ernie Cooley
15/11/2007 at 12:35
kris_gb20 wrote
Not many thieves drag an anvil around with them AFAIK, hence why Almax were a bit miffed...


I was always under the impression that they would fit in your inside pocket
Zeph
15/11/2007 at 12:36
Ernie Cooley wrote

I don't think they would be bothered which tools they used, other than the ones which do the job quickest?


My point is that, Zanx has tested the Pragmasis chain and places it second to the Almax because it failed to standup to a sledgehammer attack,,, erm.... but so did the Almax
choc-ice
15/11/2007 at 12:40
Ernie Cooley wrote
I was always under the impression that they would fit in your inside pocket


See this thread
Ernie Cooley
15/11/2007 at 12:47
choc-ice wrote
See this thread


That's it!!!! I need an Acme Chain n lock
TRX n Me = :o)
15/11/2007 at 13:58
Count Steer wrote
Corus...a fine English company:

On April 2 2007, Corus became a subsidiary of Tata Steel. More information about Tata steel is available at www.tatasteel.com.

Ta ta.

PS. No doubt all the 'Buy British' advocates want British chains to protect their British bikes. PMSL.


Corus was't 'British', Anglo-Dutch maybe, but not British.

Doesn't alter the fact that they (BSC, UES, Corus, TaTa, take your pick over the last 25 years) own a number of steel manufacturing sites that are in the UK, producing steel from the start point of iron ore.

Whether any of it makes it's way into Almax chains, I don't know. I just don't see the relevancy of who owns a steel plant located in the UK to the discussion about how effective a security product is.
Murphy's 6th Law 'if every thing appears to be going fine, you missed something'

One day my fingers will type the letters teh in the correct order..... one day.....

Want a holiday in France?

TiT #38D
Nobody203
15/11/2007 at 14:14
TRX n Me = ) wrote
Corus was't 'British', Anglo-Dutch maybe, but not British.

Doesn't alter the fact that they (BSC, UES, Corus, TaTa, take your pick over the last 25 years) own a number of steel manufacturing sites that are in the UK, producing steel from the start point of iron ore.

Whether any of it makes it's way into Almax chains, I don't know. I just don't see the relevancy of who owns a steel plant located in the UK to the discussion about how effective a security product is.


The relevancy is the marketing point of Almax, i.e. a totally British product with British steel.
WUSS#1169, pipe 'n' slippers officionado. 'L'Homme Bleu qui marche plus vite', yes and keep it that way. This is also still dull

VFRs are nice, a bit like me, nice but dull :smoke:
Horse
15/11/2007 at 14:58
Bonners wrote
The relevancy is the marketing point of Almax, i.e. a totally British product with British steel.


You'd have thought 'no steal' would be the best advertising for any security company.

But hey, what do I know? :burnout:

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Nobody203
15/11/2007 at 15:02
Horse wrote
You'd have thought 'no steal' would be the best advertising for any security company.

But hey, what do I know? :burnout:


Maybe so, but it is still important enough to have the following quote on the website:

Quote
All Immobiliser Chains are triple tempered, BRITISH steel, enhanced with carbon, manganese and boron, case hardened with 3 separate processes and zinc plated


EDIT: Their caps, not mine.
WUSS#1169, pipe 'n' slippers officionado. 'L'Homme Bleu qui marche plus vite', yes and keep it that way. This is also still dull

VFRs are nice, a bit like me, nice but dull :smoke:
Zanx
15/11/2007 at 16:52
Zeph wrote
My point is that, Zanx has tested the Pragmasis chain and places it second to the Almax because it failed to standup to a sledgehammer attack,,, erm.... but so did the Almax



Point being that you don't need freeze spray to break the Pragmasis, you DO need it for the Almax and something as squishy as the Oxford Nemesis doesn't resond to freeze spray at all. Personally I'd expect a chain to withstand more than one spank with a sledgehammer before shattering but don't read too much into this test anyway, like I said, it was ideal and not particularly realistic conditions. If I could replicate it on a kerb, I'd be more worried.

Over to the dogs.
tronlc
16/11/2007 at 15:50
Zanx wrote
Point being that you don't need freeze spray to break the Pragmasis, you DO need it for the Almax and something as squishy as the Oxford Nemesis doesn't resond to freeze spray at all. Personally I'd expect a chain to withstand more than one spank with a sledgehammer before shattering but don't read too much into this test anyway, like I said, it was ideal and not particularly realistic conditions. If I could replicate it on a kerb, I'd be more worried.

Over to the dogs.



The Almax will shatter with a sledge and freeze spray?
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