German build quality - Myth? - General

gremlin

04/01/2007 at 11:21

I know people who swear by German manufacturing standards, but I do wonder if this is all propaganda

I had a 5 series and had loads of niggling, yet costly faults.

Brother-in-law has just had a £2.5k bill for a failed cat, fucked discs and a few other bits on a 2001 Merc C220.

Mate had a K1200 and the gear box fell to bits after a year. Only a load of letters to BMW got them to chip in to the repair costs.

Bloke in work has an Audi which constantly tells him his door is open and yet the garage can find the problem.

Yet I've always leant towards Jap cars and bikes and can honestly say that although not perfect, the build quality is much superior to European standards. Less hassle to own and that is a huge incentive for me. Having driven/riden European stuff as well it's not as if the overall package is somehow 'less' either.

Just my thoughts.

I once had a Volvo, but I don't want to talk about it.

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tenbears

04/01/2007 at 11:22

Not as good as it was, but still better than anything made here.

Big Nige

04/01/2007 at 11:25

Only bested by Australian build quality.

Cousin Jack

04/01/2007 at 11:25

I have had a Lexus car from new, the wife has had a Mercedes, also from new.

Mercedes - lots of niggling problems
Lexus - virtually zero problems

Tel me of this German build quality of which you speak.

Cousin Jack

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RiceBurner

04/01/2007 at 11:28

The Germans "used" to have a virtual monopoly on quality of finish, but that's been overtaking by the Japanese now.

Just like the UK "used" to have a virtual monopoly on superiority of design, but that was long in the past and the Japanese/rest of world have caught up.

The Japanese (generalistion) aren't terribly good at innovation, or coming up with improvements to quality (innovative in itself one could argue), but what they ARE good at is improving on what others have achieved in small ways, these small improvements add up over time until the Japanese are doing everything better than everyone else. That's the situation we're in now.

It's a deep rooted part of their culture to "improve" on a general basis (ie not on a personal basis), and no other culture in the world is quite the same.

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tenbears

04/01/2007 at 11:29

RiceBurner wrote

Just like the UK "used" to have a virtual monopoly on superiority of design, but that was long in the past and the Japanese/rest of world have caught up.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

maddog

04/01/2007 at 11:30

gremlin wrote

I know people who swear by German manufacturing standards, but I do wonder if this is all propaganda

Brother-in-law has just had a £2.5k bill for a failed cat, fucked discs and a few other bits on a 2001 Merc C220.

2001 C class they may be good but they dont last forever its a 6 year old car cats and discs are consumable items but then most things are after 6 years !

Sounds like he got the work done at MB as well!!

German engineering is still good their build quality is variable though.

I'd buy Jap over German though

balbas

04/01/2007 at 11:33

gremlin wrote

Brother-in-law has just had a £2.5k bill for a failed cat, fucked discs and a few other bits on a 2001 Merc C220.

I agree that German build quality isn't what it's purported to be, and Mercedes especially are let down by some very shoddy dealers, but let's be serious for a moment. Your BIL has a 6 year old car, which even at average mileage will now be showing 60 and 84k miles, and he's complaining because the consumables need replacing...

What does he expect, free motoring for the rest of his life because he bought German...?

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choc-ice

04/01/2007 at 11:33

RiceBurner wrote

The Germans "used" to have a virtual monopoly on quality of finish, but that's been overtaking by the Japanese now.

What he said.

Chances are a Merc / VW / Audi from 1992 will be more reliable than a 2002 one, even though it's had 10 years more of neglect.

maddog

04/01/2007 at 11:35

choc-ice wrote

What he said.

Chances are a Merc / VW / Audi from 1992 will be more reliable than a 2002 one, even though it's had 10 years more of neglect.

I very much doubt that!!

choc-ice

04/01/2007 at 11:35

tenbears wrote

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

At which bit of the statement?

- British have ever been best at design?
- Rest of the world have caught up?
- RB's is old enough to remember the 19th century?

abjectblitz

04/01/2007 at 11:37

I would say east German build quality in the MZ was much better

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F.I.N.E

04/01/2007 at 11:38

Hmmmmmmm, sure the Merc C class's are made in on of the East European countries (???), and any factory in Germany is probably staffed by Turkish, or other immigrants anyway, not a Kraut in sight methinks.................

You got to lose to know how to win............ :smoke:

tenbears

04/01/2007 at 11:39

choc-ice wrote

At which bit of the statement?

- British have ever been best at design?
- Rest of the world have caught up?
- RB's is old enough to remember the 19th century?

Here, I'll help you out a bit.

RiceBurner wrote

Just like the UK "used" to have a virtual monopoly on superiority of design, but that was long in the past and the Japanese/rest of world have caught up.

Or do you need it spelt out?

chronyx

04/01/2007 at 11:39

tenbears wrote

Or do you need it spelt out?

Why

Ee

Es

choc-ice

04/01/2007 at 11:40

maddog wrote

I very much doubt that!!

Straw poll done between half a dozen mates owning Mercs, VWs and Audis between 0 and 15 years old:

Results - The old ones are like carpets - the harder you beat them, the better they are. If the new ones didn't come with a 3 year warranty nobody would buy them. All these JD power type surveys tend to place new ones quite low too.

If you want reliability now, Japanese is the answer. Of course if you don't want to feel like you're sitting in an old minicab you might want something else

choc-ice

04/01/2007 at 11:41

tenbears wrote

Or do you need it spelt out?

Evidently I do. Or could you draw me a picture?

6x6

04/01/2007 at 11:42

tenbears wrote

Not as good as it was, but still better than anything made here.

Actually I would say we're quite good at building things here, given that Nissan, Toyota and Honda all have plants in the UK.

Meanwhile, there's a good chance your BMW was actually built in South Africa (where they used to make cars for all the RHD markets of the world - not sure how much this is still the case), and if you have a Merc M Class (one of the most unreliable cars on the road) it was built in the USA.

Works on datsuns. Relaxes in fords.

gremlin

04/01/2007 at 11:43

balbas wrote

What does he expect, free motoring for the rest of his life because he bought German...?

No. Cheeky cunt expected me to lend him £2.5k!!

I once had a Volvo, but I don't want to talk about it.

balbas

04/01/2007 at 11:44

gremlin wrote

No. Cheeky cunt expected me to lend him £2.5k!!

Ah, so he does expect free motoring. You'd never have seen that £2.5k again...

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