Brands Indy times/crisis of confidence

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11/05/2005 at 19:14
OK, here's the thing....

After a handful of trackdays over the last couple of summers I've really enjoyed, I thought I'd like to take it further and have been thinking about trying Minitwins next season.

I felt like I was doing OK and passing most others (albeit in Novice, I know, I know...) but having done a timed ESS day on Monday at Brands and comparing with race times I'm a bit disappointed and clearly aren't as quick as I felt I was.

Now, I'm not looking to win any prizes but don't want to be wasting my time and money either, so want some sensible advice on what times I should be looking at. My bike's not exactly race-spec and obviously a trackday is not going to produce the best times, but some guide would be useful.

I'd also like to know how much quicker a Minitwins bike would likely be over mine to give me a decent comparison with the race times.

My bike is a stock '97 ZX7R. So, stock 8-yr old suspension, Diablos (not Corsas), dodgy brakes in need of service etc etc.

I'm sure that doing all the standard things to a 7R would help, like getting the suspsension at least tweaked for me, raising the rear ride height, dropping the gearing etc would all help, but it's a decently powerful bike after all, even if it is 200+ kg...

Be gentle with me, I'm not really one for forum gut-spilling normally...
Mike Edwards
11/05/2005 at 19:21
Take a look down the tail end of the MiniTwins grid. They are only doing 1:02s or there abouts.

A well set up MiniTwins is a lot less scary than something bigger. Why not hire one for the day and find out?
MIST Suzuki Racing - Brand new GSXR1000K7 for sale. Race prepped just needs suspension.
Dale
11/05/2005 at 19:29
There used to be a rule of thumb that if your laptime was within 10 secs of a win/lap record for your class, that youd be quick enough to race.

On short circuits, you could drop that to 7-8 secs. But its not far off as a general rule.

Bear in mind, its early 2005, and your talking about racing in 2006. Your on an old bike and not track tyres, and neither will give you huge confidence of a new bike and tyres.

The first time you get timed, your always slower than you thought. It felt quick right? And the racers at the back dont look that quick do they? Its all relative though, and laptimes reveal that. Have a look at the times for the back of the field, and aim for those.

On the bright side, now you know where you are, where you need to be, and youve the time and the summer(?) ahead to keep improving and get there.

Unless your having us on, and your midfield now, and you were looking for the win?

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cymruambyth
11/05/2005 at 19:35
Well me and mickymellon are doing minitwins in 2006 too. ive started saving the money for the bike and already getting other bit genny,tyre warmers tools ect. any 1 know of places selling race sv650 on the net? how much will one cost? how much are entry fees? will be racing with bemsee.




(dave drops the clutch and stalls oppssss)
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CBracer46
11/05/2005 at 20:32
Im getting one built from SDC performance at the moment. In my opinion they build the best SV650's in the paddock. Not cheap like as there brandnew bikes nealry and built with brandnew race parts

www.jhsracing.co.uk also build them for 6k from a brandnew bike but the spec isnt as high and there dearer than sdc.


www.littlewoodracing.co.uk

BSB Superstock 2007.
Mike Edwards
11/05/2005 at 22:10
CBracer46 wrote
Im getting one built from SDC performance at the moment. In my opinion they build the best SV650's in the paddock. Not cheap like as there brandnew bikes nealry and built with brandnew race parts

www.jhsracing.co.uk also build them for 6k from a brand new bike but the spec isnt as high and there dearer than sdc.


Both Gary at SDC and JHS Racing build some very nice bikes.

Probably not up to the same spec. of the ones I've built for the MiniTwins series but it's nice to have a choice depending on your budget.

It was one of my bikes that won 3 out of 4 races at Brands last weekend. Admittedly Matt Bond is a very talented rider, shame he just missed out on setting a new lap record.

Just so you know :burnout:
MIST Suzuki Racing - Brand new GSXR1000K7 for sale. Race prepped just needs suspension.
Mike Edwards
11/05/2005 at 22:35
For more information on the MiniTwins why not have a look at the www.minitwins.co.uk web site.

You can also sign up to the email discussion list (details on the site).
MIST Suzuki Racing - Brand new GSXR1000K7 for sale. Race prepped just needs suspension.
11/05/2005 at 22:39
Dale wrote
Unless your having us on, and your midfield now, and you were looking for the win?


Nah, don't worry about that...

Mike Edwards wrote
A well set up MiniTwins is a lot less scary than something bigger. Why not hire one for the day and find out?


I might do that - very good idea

Dale wrote
On the bright side, now you know where you are, where you need to be, and youve the time and the summer(?) ahead to keep improving and get there.


True, true...

Dale wrote
There used to be a rule of thumb that if your laptime was within 10 secs of a win/lap record for your class, that youd be quick enough to race.

On short circuits, you could drop that to 7-8 secs. But its not far off as a general rule.


That sounds cool - was doing mid 59s so sounds about right.

Cheers guys
Bigyin
11/05/2005 at 22:41
As there were more than 4 minitwin races last weekend at Brands if you include the the 2 group qualifiers before the A and B finals...............it was either Matt Bonds or Bob Collins bikes.....i would guess at Matts as Carbontech put Bobs together AFAIK


Edited as having seen your edit re Matt
I wear Orange overalls and pick up crashed loons from the track at weekends :smoke:


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The only thing Bigyin knows about Traffic Law is how to break every last mother f*cking one of them.......... Abel
weeksy
12/05/2005 at 07:22
At most circuit there are the Golden rule of thumb for lab times... if you breaks the barriers then you're in the right ball park to get something outside of last place..

Brands barrier is 1.00
Danny_Two
12/05/2005 at 08:38
Slenver wrote

but having done a timed ESS day on Monday at Brands and comparing with race times I'm a bit disappointed and clearly aren't as quick as I felt I was.


I know exactly how that feels.
weeksy
12/05/2005 at 08:51
Guys, guys, guys,

We've all been in the EXACT position you are now... Trackdays make it easier to find out who is doing what and when.....

Don't worry, when it comest to the crunch you WILL find the time...

i found 5 seconds at Mallory in 2 months leading up to and including my 1st and 2nd meeting.....
Dale
12/05/2005 at 09:00
weeksy wrote

i found 5 seconds at Mallory in 2 months leading up to and including my 1st and 2nd meeting.....


Plus or minus?

(Sorry couldnt help myself)

Thanks to sponsors;
www.pdms1.com tyre sponsor
www.japerformance.co.uk for providing the Rapidbike system and custom mapping.
www.aberdeenbikers.co.uk for providing www.blackstuffracing.com
www.BikePix.co.uk action pics
www.oxprod.com for the HJC Helmets
Silkolene Oils Scheme
BT Vinyl Graphics contact Bob@gsx1400.org
weeksy
12/05/2005 at 09:02
Dale wrote
Plus or minus?

(Sorry couldnt help myself)



LOL it was 5 seconds faster.... i found out i'm allowed to use 2nd gear
Eff Bee
12/05/2005 at 09:50
Gareth, mine and steves SV's will be up for grabs come end of the season as will be building some from the K6 model for next season.

Can build a bike from £3.5k upto £6k dependant on spec. Ohlins front and rear, gilles rearsets complete with spares, GPR damper, Alloy subframe, 520 chain and enough sprockets for most tracks, PF brake pads and goodridge lines, full M4 system etc etc. Prob will soon have the choice of remoulded GSXR1000K5 bodywork too!. Plus a team and Ohlins suspension guy on hand to look after your every wim... We currently have 9 bikes running out there that have support from us, another 2 being prepped and 3 400's 2 600's a 750 and a few at BSB are run through us....and ours will run at the Manx in 2006! - Gareth fancy being pit boy for that???


not sure how i find the time to come on here and gas bag!.

Anyway on topic....Slenver - you cant compare the race SV to your bike, totally different scenario..heavier not set up..etc etc. Get some track time this year..do an ESS day. Get an SV and then you will soon find yourself being dragged along by others on test days.

You be fine - we all started somewhere!
cymruambyth
12/05/2005 at 10:17
Yeah sarah id love to pit for you at the manx.



(dave trying to re-fuel and smoke at same time)
sponsors-
www.stevejordanmotorcycles.co.uk
www.seton-tuning.co.uk


Life begins at 10k revs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike Edwards
12/05/2005 at 10:26
Fastbird wrote
Gareth, mine and steves SV's will be up for grabs come end of the season as will be building some from the K6 model for next season.


Some people will do anythign to make up that power deificit
MIST Suzuki Racing - Brand new GSXR1000K7 for sale. Race prepped just needs suspension.
Eff Bee
12/05/2005 at 10:35
Mike Edwards wrote
Some people will do anythign to make up that power deificit


ah yes thats steve excuse...but i would put it down to fat belly and old age
12/05/2005 at 10:39
weeksy wrote
i found 5 seconds at Mallory in 2 months leading up to and including my 1st and 2nd meeting.....



Where were they? Always the last place you look, right?
12/05/2005 at 10:42
Fastbird wrote
Anyway on topic....Slenver - you cant compare the race SV to your bike, totally different scenario..heavier not set up..etc etc. Get some track time this year..do an ESS day. Get an SV and then you will soon find yourself being dragged along by others on test days.

You be fine - we all started somewhere!


I think getting hold of an SV earlier rather than later is probably the key and getting some tracktime on it...

Anyway, the 7R's not speaking to me after Monday's little grasstracking session

My ribs hurt And I hate getting the bus...
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