What does the future hold for "Bikesafe"?

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21/01/2005 at 11:56
As you probably know the MCIA bailed them out before Christmas to the tune of £37,500.00.

Overall most folks seem pleased with the introductory courses they have attended especially in light of a very small financial outlay.

Quite clearly there is a shortfall between revenue generated and expenditure.

Was this subsidised?
Is it going to be subsidised?
Can't help thinking that without a significant financial input then it can't continue for ever?

Can anybody enlighten us?

Bikers have little brand loyalty and are far happier to be led by the nose to the cheapest prices then whinge about the bad service
21/01/2005 at 11:59
Compared to what was put in to 'Edge', it's peanuts.

Any ideas of how that Bikesafe sum works out per rider taking part?

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

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21/01/2005 at 12:04
Bob Pinder wrote
the MCIA bailed them out


Just a thought: quite emotive language you've used. Was it an overspend by Bikesafe, that urgently required 'bailing', or was it pre-planned with the MCIA?

As far as I'm aware, when Edge folded MCIA said they had other plans to spend money on rider training.

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

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21/01/2005 at 12:15
Bob Pinder wrote
As you probably know the MCIA bailed them out before Christmas to the tune of £37,500.00
Is Bikesafe centrally organised? I thought it was a scheme run by your local constabulary - I didn't know it has a central organisation that managed to overspend by so much.

What on earth were they buying for their ££££? A little bit of (usually free) publicity in local papers and TV, a few websites and a box full of A5 leaflets would do
diy
21/01/2005 at 12:24
I have to agree with FJS.

I can't see why they need any investment beyound a bit of advertising and sharing of best practices.

It is also annoying that the scamerati collect £250M and wont spend a penny on this kind of thing as 'its not about speed reduction'.

Of course the moment they did fund it - I'd stop volunteering

£37,500 is just enought to buy a Gatso.
21/01/2005 at 12:27
The London web site mentions their 2000th rider. I don't know about the rest of the UK, but let's guess at 3,700 annually, then that's not a high subsidy, is it?

Still, buy a bike or product and it's likely you're funding it, so what goes around . . .

Wonder what these: www.bikesafe-sheffield.co.uk/ think of it?

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

21/01/2005 at 12:30
Horse wrote
The London web site mentions their 2000th rider. I don't know about the rest of the UK, but let's guess at 3,700 annually, then that's not a high subsidy, is it?
£37k is not a high subsidy to run the courses (do all areas have one?) - but an overspend of £37K for nothing is!
21/01/2005 at 12:31
Given how many man hours of actual work?
Half a dozen coppers, 1 day a week, 40(?) weeks a year, how many locals?
They volunteer their time, no? but there's still admin (bookings etc) printing, compiling the handouts etc.

£37.5k - bargain

Where are you? Why are you here? Look at this

21/01/2005 at 12:34
kyot wrote
Half a dozen coppers, 1 day a week, 40(?) weeks a year, how many locals?
They volunteer their time, no? but there's still admin (bookings etc) printing, compiling the handouts etc.
I was under the impression that the forces themselves were using their own budgets as the course was seen as a way to reduce accidents and costs....?

Am I mistaken?
21/01/2005 at 12:50
www.mcia.co.uk/_Attachments/173_101CMS.pdf

Industry 'Exasperated' With Government Inaction As Bikesafe Funding Is Announced

The Motor Cycle Industry Association MCI has today announced that it will be funding the administration costs of the national motorcycle safety programme 'Bikesafe' until the end of the financial year in April 2005. The industry grant amounts to a total of £37,500.

Bikesafe is a police led scheme which was piloted in 1996 and has been running in a number of force areas since then. Bikesafe combines rider assessment, road safety discussion and assisted motorcycleriding to identify areas where riders could benefit from advanced motorcycle training. Bikesafe acts as a conduit to more established training programmes and is very popular among riders of all kinds. Increasing interest from riders and the spread of the programme to encompass the majority of the UK led to the launch of a national Bikesafe initiative at MCI's road safety conference in May 2004.

The programme is currently co-ordinated nationally by North Wales police and officers around the country often give up free time to ensure the scheme's success. As well as being popular among riders, Bikesafe can claim success in cutting casualty numbers. Bikesafe London is one of the most popular in the country and is heavily oversubscribed. MCI believes that the programme has helped towards the 8% decrease in motorcycle casualties in London in 2003.

Resources for Bikesafe have always been tight, with many programmes relying on the good will of chiefpolice officers and individual police motorcyclists. As a result, earlier this year, Bikesafe, with the support of MCI applied for proper year-to-year funding from the network of safety camera partnerships. This was refused due to the current rules surrounding how revenue raised from speed cameras can be used. Questions in Parliament exposed unwillingness by Government to change the rules so that road safety programmes with a proven track record, such as Bikesafe, could benefit from camera cash.

Faced with the prospect of funds running out for the national scheme, MCI has stepped in to fund the scheme with a one-off grant.

MCI feels that the Bikesafe funding issue has exposed a lack of coherent thinking by Government with regard to motorcycle safety and highlighted the vexed issue of the role of speed cameras.

Craig Carey-Clinch, MCI Director of Public Affairs said; 'The idea of a national road safety scheme, which is police run, has public support and a proven track record, effectively going bust a few months after its launch is absurd. Government seems to expect that a scheme it has already indicated it supports, can run on good will, private sector cash and fresh air and in the process reduce the number of motorcycle accidents about which it claims to have so much concern.

'It is quite clear that if we're to see a reduction in motorcycle accidents Bikesafe needs sustainable levelsof long-term funding, which it can only really get from Government sources. This will help the programme develop and reach more riders who are at risk.

'The refusal of Ministers to consider speed camera funding is short sighted and exasperating to say the least. Speed cameras are so unpopular partly because there is a public perception that cash for cameras disappears into the black hole of safety camera partnerships never to be seen again. Public acceptability of speed cameras would improve if some of the revenue raised was ploughed back into a scheme which the public can see helps to improve road safety in an area of particular public concern -motorcycle accidents.'The rules need changing and Government needs to release funds - they've done it for other road safety programmes, they can do it for Bikesafe -- otherwise Ministerial commitments to improving ridersafety will start to look a little hollow.'

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

21/01/2005 at 13:05
The MCIA organised "Edge" scheme failed in that they were unable to attract sufficient numbers.

Hampshire Bikesafe scheme is known as Edge 44 which is basically the same scheme resued from the ashes...

During 2003 170 riders attended Edge 44 and from memory something like 250 people attended the MCIA Edge between 00/02

Read all about it here www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/Bikesafe2000/england/hampshire/hampshire.html

Mick Gear organises things and he's an OK guy and I talk to him quite regularly

Bikers have little brand loyalty and are far happier to be led by the nose to the cheapest prices then whinge about the bad service
21/01/2005 at 13:07
Government dont seem to care, maybe its time for Bikesafe to move to a different organisation that cares like IAM...

Nick

Dark Angel / Jen's other half.

My website | Money Traffic Blog | Give Blood | Kill Spills
diy
21/01/2005 at 13:58
Horse wrote
The London web site mentions their 2000th rider. I don't know about the rest of the UK, but let's guess at 3,700 annually, then that's not a high subsidy, is it?

Still, buy a bike or product and it's likely you're funding it, so what goes around . . .

Wonder what these: www.bikesafe-sheffield.co.uk/ think of it?


According to who is first registerred in Mar-2001, so given that Bikesafe was started in 2000, this would be a case of the training company passing off not the other way around.

Trouble is - both parties have left it too late to act.

Interestingly they appear to be another businessserve mug, so probably pay 100 quid a year just to host their domain name and then get threatened with legal action if they even think about trying to get it moved to a cheaper host

Which btw If anyone has problems moving domains nominet do it for 15 quid.
21/01/2005 at 16:06
FJSRiDER wrote
I was under the impression that the forces themselves were using their own budgets as the course was seen as a way to reduce accidents and costs....?

Am I mistaken?

I don't know.
My point was that, as a percentage of total effort, £37k must be small, that's about or less then one year full cost administrator equivalent.

Where are you? Why are you here? Look at this

21/01/2005 at 16:12
Ahhhhh... the whiff of politics... I love it

Quote
Is Bikesafe centrally organised? I thought it was a scheme run by your local constabulary - I didn't know it has a central organisation that managed to overspend by so much.


There's a coordinated syllabus now... but so long as the contents of the syllabus are delivered I believe individual forces can go their own way.

Quote

"It is quite clear that if we're to see a reduction in motorcycle accidents Bikesafe needs sustainable levelsof long-term funding, which it can only really get from Government sources. This will help the programme develop and reach more riders who are at risk."


Let's just remember where the MCIA is situated... backs to the wall, the Minister telling them to sort out the accident problem or the Government WILL legislate... remember that?

So let's translate... "the MCIA which is the umbrella body representing the UK manufacturers, importers and dealers, can't (or won't) actually scrape up more than the cost of a couple of company cars for our executives from the millions of pounds that are spent by you, the punter, on motorcycling every year because noone in the industry wants to dig into their pocket, because we all think the Government should pay for it"...

Quote
The MCIA organised "Edge" scheme failed in that they were unable to attract sufficient numbers.


They were unable to attact sufficient numbers of PLOD to do the assessing!!
I pointed this out at the time the Edge was fizzling out and they were advertising for retired police. Indeed I wrote to Karen Cooke at the Edge when it was suspended "temporarily" pointing out that if they spent the money on training CBT/DAS instructors to do the assessments they would have no trouble whatsoever in finding assessors... but because of the insistance that the Edge had to have a "benefits" package which needed to include insurance discounts, the insurance companies insisted that the assessments were only carried out by police riders.

Quote
Government dont seem to care, maybe its time for Bikesafe to move to a different organisation that cares like IAM...


I really hope you are joking...

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21/01/2005 at 16:25
I know that some people will see this as sour grapes but I was rather sceptical about Bikesafe right from the first, and watching the situation develop I think I was right.

First up, why did the police start doing Bikesafe? Well, I seem to remember reading it was mostly publicity, showing that they were in fact human and they were concerned about riding skills, and weren't just out there to pursecute bikers.

Second, why did the MCIA get involved? Because they had major egg-on-face after pumping massive amounts of cash into the Edge, and desperately needed to salvage something showing their commitment to rider safety

Third, it gives the impression to riders that training by the police is "best" because its approved.

Fourth, it's gives the impression to riders that training should be cheap.

It's going to be very hard to recover from all those errors...

The police forces are finding themselves criticised for attempting to withdraw from what I'm sure they never intended to be a long-term training commitment, let alone one that they would be expected to fund.

The MCIA are left looking at a disintigrating network that was never meant to be coherent in the first place

The third and fourth any commercial trainer will know about...

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

diy
21/01/2005 at 16:26
I'm not convinced the right people turn up to bikesafe, for it to have any real safety benefit.

We tend to get those that are already interested in becoming safer or those who are doing it to aid a court case.

We don't know which kind of riders are having the accidents and there is even evidence to suggest the police no longer properly investigate them.

TC's site quotes examples of single vehicle accidents that were actually SMIDSYs
21/01/2005 at 18:09
Bob Pinder wrote
As you probably know the MCIA bailed them out before Christmas to the tune of £37,500.00.

Overall most folks seem pleased with the introductory courses they have attended especially in light of a very small financial outlay.

Quite clearly there is a shortfall between revenue generated and expenditure.

Was this subsidised?
Is it going to be subsidised?
Can't help thinking that without a significant financial input then it can't continue for ever?

Can anybody enlighten us?


Horse is almost there
<The programme is currently co-ordinated nationally by North Wales police>

The person heading it up is Steve Green an Inspector, who's annual wage bill would be somewhere in the region of £37,500.00. Last year he was financed by North Wales Police, for him to continue in his role as a secondment means that someone else will have to pay otherwise he goes back to North Wales police. Make sense?

done it dont want to do it again
COG#4 TIT120 SG82

Training in and around Oxfordshire


21/01/2005 at 18:28
You clearly have jumped to a lot of conclusions. 2+2 = 12? Pity you dont have people on here in the know...

Bikesafe is healthy and its annual launch is from Cheltenham racecourse in Spring 2005 and I will be there. The funding is for the admin, it has nothing to do with how the assessments are organised. I think some here would just love it to fail. dream on
21/01/2005 at 18:44
unomeok wrote
You clearly have jumped to a lot of conclusions. 2+2 = 12? Pity you dont have people on here in the know...

Not NEARLY as big a conclusion YOU have jumped to.
www.visordown.com/forums/member.php?u=12281
Im sure the answers will be along shortly.


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