Riding on auto pilot

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Hairbrush

12/03/2003 at 10:55

We all ride on auto pilot sometimes, its unavoidable. Generally speaking we do it on familiar roads.

If, like me, you commute a fair distance, especially by Motorway, it can almost become your default state.

So how do we train our auto-pilot? Is there a way of spying on our auto-pilot to make sure its not riding like a nob?

BTW I'm not really interested in hearing about ways of avoiding engaging auto-pilot. I know that's the ideal and can be done to some extent but it is not a pragmatic solution particularly for bored commuters.

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Dingbat

12/03/2003 at 12:39

A few years ago, I used to commute by car from Nottingham to Wolverhampton/Birmingham.

I was finding more and more that I was switching to autopilot because my mind was wandering to work matters (what am I going to do today, that sort of thing) as well as dwelling on things at home.

After a while, this started to worry me as well - especially when I was finding half-smoked cigs in my hand that I didn't even notice that I'd lit-up. Got me so worried that I changed job from a 70-mile each way commute to a five/ten mile one.

What helped me then, though, as it does now on the bike, is doing a mental commentary on the ride - how I'm riding, hazards, weather/road conditions, where to filter (or not), that sort of thing. Tends to keep the mind focussed and stops the autpilot.

Dreaming of life in a modern secular democracy. If you find one, please let me know. Apart from France, that is, because it's full of cheese

diy

12/03/2003 at 12:57

Apart from comenting on your riding (which is a particularly useful technique BTW), you need to analyse your mistakes. We did a thread about a year ago on self-service advance training. i.e. being your own instructor.

Everytime you brake ask yourself why?
- was I too close?
- Did I not anticipate a hazard?
- Did I over accelerate etc.

Everytime something catches you out
- Am using my mirrors/lifesavers properly?
- Are the road conditions different?

Also try varying your route.

From discussions I've had with people (i.e. not based on a statistical study), you are most at risk if the conditions on your daily route change. Perhaps you left earlier or later and encounterred different traffic conditions, perhaps roadworks have caused a change? This is when accidents occur, becuase you get used to doing certain 'tricks' at certain stages, without making proper judgement.

qwerty

12/03/2003 at 15:58

Hairbrush wrote

We all ride on auto pilot sometimes, its unavoidable.

I don't. My concentration level never dips below 100%.

Hairbrush

12/03/2003 at 16:36

Trying to ignore Mr Soap, who's lying to us, lying to himself, is a newbie or never rides on the road.

Quote

BTW I'm not really interested in hearing about ways of avoiding engaging auto-pilot. I know that's the ideal and can be done to some extent but it is not a pragmatic solution particularly for bored commuters.

I knew saying this was a waste of time.

I can't reasonably vary my route, there's 60 odd miles of M1 between my house and the north circular which is about an hour of Mway, I dread to think how long it would take down the A5.

Commentary wouldn't , I suspect, really ward off the auto-pilot. Saying "There's a grey car behind me, a blue car ahead, a yellow van to my left, we're all doing 55mph" for 15 minutes isn't exactly an aid to concentration.

I brought this up because this A.M. I noticed that I was suddenly covering my brakes. My auto-pilot had done this because a car was drifting ever so slighly in its lane. So that was a tick in the box of the auto-pilot but what had I missed, anything, nothing? Is my semi-concious mind capable of dealing with developments as well as my concious mind?

I haven't noticed auto-pilot being engaged on the country road or "that London(tm)" sections of my journey.

Real men don't sig.

qwerty

12/03/2003 at 17:33

Hairbrush wrote

Trying to ignore Mr Soap, who's lying to us, lying to himself, is a newbie or never rides on the road.

Rather condescending.

After 35 years on 2 wheels, I feel I would be perfectly safe riding on auto-pilot. However, I choose not to. This may explain why I've never crashed, on the road, or track.

It may also explain, why, on the occasions I've taken advanced training, the Instructors have actually learned more from me, than I have learned from them.

The Spin Doctor

12/03/2003 at 18:37

<<I knew saying this was a waste of time.>>

And I knew that you would get those answers.... except the suds one

I guess the only thing you can do is to have a good idea of where you need to switch it on again, and to allow yourself plenty of time and space when you do go into doze-mode...

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

The Spin Doctor

12/03/2003 at 18:40

<<It may also explain, why, on the occasions I've taken advanced training, the Instructors have actually learned more from me, than I have learned from them.>>

It would be a poor instructor who never learned from a course... then again, a trainee who never learned a thing...

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

Horse

12/03/2003 at 19:15

Fascinating question, and I hope someone comes up with a good answer - 'cos I can't think of one!

I suppose it comes down to 'what does your subconscious rider base his decisions on?'. If it's the same as you would do in 'conscious' riding then work on keeping that up to scratch.

If it's not . . . well, that raises the question of: could your subconscious be a 'better' (and I leave that - ie 'meachanical' or 'safer', etc. open to debate) rider than you are?

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

The Spin Doctor

12/03/2003 at 22:52

<<Fascinating question, and I hope someone comes up with a good answer - 'cos I can't think of one!>>

I'm glad you're stumped too

I must say this is the kind of question I like... because it's straightforward and honest... it's a realistic view of what we REALLY do... of course we don't concentrate 100% all the time, so there must be trigger events which operate at a subconcious level to bring up a concious part of the mind.. we need a psychologist I suspect!

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

Horse

12/03/2003 at 22:56

The Spin Doctor wrote

<<we need a psychologist I suspect!

I've already e-mailed one and asked!

How about your man at Cranfield, d'ya think he'd know?

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

The Spin Doctor

12/03/2003 at 22:59

<<How about your man at Cranfield, d'ya think he'd know?>>

I'll try to remember amidst trying to reduce the paper mountain to a molehill tomorrow...

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

Hairbrush

13/03/2003 at 10:34

More thoughts and observations.

I've decided there are probably 2 modes of auto-pilot.

First is cruise control. The apparently low concentration mode of cruising down a motorway or along an empty A road that we know well. In this situation its possible we are paying more attention than we realise. We are just 'choosing' not to register all the things we know are there because familiarity has accepted that they are not relevant or worth committing to memory. Typified by "I know I rode/drove to work this morning because I got from my house to my office but I can't remember it". We may have been travelling using our experience fuelled auto-pilot. As long as we ride OK when we are paying attention we are probably OK in this situation. For example last night my auto-pilot again went to cover the brakes because I saw brake lights coming on half mile away.

Second is habit riding. This is the mode, I think, that diy was referring to when he referred to accidents happening when the unexpected happens on a routine journey. Its doing what you did the last 25 days and it was fine. Typified by "I turned in to drive that wasn't mine and hit a tree I haven't got"**. For example heading out of my village towards the A45 a bus was turning off the A road. It freaked me out because nothing turns off towards my village in the morning, there's nothing there.

I think the former is OK, not great but liveable.

The latter should be avoided if possible. Being realistic however, we should probably not get into the habit of cutting things fine on routine journeys.

** with thanks to Jasper Carrot

Real men don't sig.

The Spin Doctor

13/03/2003 at 11:19

<<I brought this up because this A.M. I noticed that I was suddenly covering my brakes. My auto-pilot had done this because a car was drifting ever so slighly in its lane. So that was a tick in the box of the auto-pilot but what had I missed, anything, nothing? Is my semi-concious mind capable of dealing with developments as well as my concious mind?>>

Go back a few threads... I'm going to search for it...

www.visordown.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=92451

Try this one... I think it will answer some of the questions you are posing here...

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

Horse

14/03/2003 at 15:21

Kerching!

Answer received from 'LabRat':

Read This, section 3.4

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Hairbrush

14/03/2003 at 16:22

Very interesting, but a bit heavy going for a friday afternoon.

If I try to understand it completely now, I'll end up thinking about it all the way home and I think that's gonna take 100% of my available brain power. Which will leave nothing available for my auto pilot and some Watford wally, Luton loony, Milton Keynes moron or Northampton nobber will smear me all over the M1.

I fully intend to read it all, looks good stuff.

Real men don't sig.

Hairbrush

14/03/2003 at 16:31

Oops read it anyway.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this.

Quote

An important feature of production rules is that they are goal-dependent: a production rule
will only fire when it matches to the appropriate goal. Although production rules become
more readily selected as a function of practice, production rules will only fire when the
appropriate goal is active. For example, a red traffic light will only automatically activate
the actions of braking when the goal of driving is active; when one is walking, the braking
response by the foot will not take place when one meets a red traffic light

Nobody does lifesavers in the supermarket then?

Real men don't sig.

The Spin Doctor

14/03/2003 at 17:27

Errr... maybe I am odd or something, but yes, I do <G>

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

gingerpose

14/03/2003 at 19:39

dangerous places, supermarkets, I mean there I was with my basket, went to make a right up the bread aisle, got totally cut up by mr and mrs jones 4 kids and mega trolley - just the life saver stopped a nasty spill, and he's got the cheek to say sorry mate.......