"Advanced" instruction

9 messages
Pas
10/02/2005 at 10:15
As a newbie I've spent quite a bit of time reading "old" threads, and whilst the differing arguments have run regards IAM / Bikesafe / RoSPA, the general concensus would appear to be "try it it may be for you, it may not",but definitely get some training.

Another point which has been brought up is the can I call it a "lack of official regard" for private tutors / instructors eg: Spin & others .

A trawl through the web [yep! I had nothing better to do ] brought up this site - www.naami.co.uk/ so, the questions are:
1) Should all independent "instructors" belong to an organisation? [not neccessarily this one]
2) If not, why not.

note: this is not a pop at any organisation or individual.

Quote
Once I was Invincible -
Then I was Indestructible
Now I'm just Incontinent!
10/02/2005 at 11:36
Pas wrote
1) Should all independent "instructors" belong to an organisation? [not neccessarily this one]
2) If not, why not.



I'm sure the government would prefer the Advanced riding community to be governed by a singular body so that possible restrictions and legislation could be easily executed.

I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

The IAM are currently the largest Advanced Motoring organisation in Britain and have already been accepted by the DAS/DSA as a potential partner for this role.

With the figures of motorcycle RTA's being so contencious, I'd be happier for the government to have as little levering power as possible.

Slow, look, lean, roll!

www.tvam.org.uk VDTD31Int Funky#00

10/02/2005 at 12:58
Pas wrote

1) Should all independent "instructors" belong to an organisation? [not neccessarily this one]
2) If not, why not.


My twopenneth is that "organizations" fall into two camps.

The trade organisation - may offer benefits to members (ie the trade) but the "qualification" to join is usually a cheque, and the "standards" are pretty well meaningless. Usualy toothless and, while promising consumer protection, rarely delivers it.

The government organisation (effectively controlled by government even if it pretends to be separate). These do impose standards, often very rigid and bureaucratic standards, and attempt to enforce a closed shop. They may offer some protection to the consumer, but are often a major cost for the members, and they totally stifle debate about what the standard should be.

I am not sure that, as a consumer of motorcycle training, I want my trainers to be pushed towards either of these organisations. They may chose to join the first, but that is for their benefit, not mine. I certainly don't want any more bureaucratic standards thankyou.

Cousin Jack

(a member of an oppressed minority whose legitimate aspirations to nationhood have been brutally suppressed by the Anglo Saxon invaders. Remember An Gof !)
10/02/2005 at 13:02
Cousin Jack wrote
I certainly don't want any more bureaucratic standards thankyou.


Well said Brother!

Slow, look, lean, roll!

www.tvam.org.uk VDTD31Int Funky#00

10/02/2005 at 13:53
Quote

The IAM are currently the largest Advanced Motoring organisation in Britain and have already been accepted by the DAS/DSA as a potential partner for this role.

With the figures of motorcycle RTA's being so contencious, I'd be happier for the government to have as little levering power as possible.


Which are two VERY good reasons for a truly independant organisation which EMBRACES rather than EXCLUDES on grounds of allegiance to any particular training methodology...

Quote

The government organisation (effectively controlled by government even if it pretends to be separate). These do impose standards, often very rigid and bureaucratic standards, and attempt to enforce a closed shop. They may offer some protection to the consumer, but are often a major cost for the members, and they totally stifle debate about what the standard should be.


THis is the role of the DSA, and pretty much accurately describes what they do .

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The trade organisation - may offer benefits to members (ie the trade) but the "qualification" to join is usually a cheque, and the "standards" are pretty well meaningless. Usualy toothless and, while promising consumer protection, rarely delivers it.


The main reason for a trade organisation for instructors is to disseminate information to ALL instructors (rather than the select few who seem to get wind of things long before the rest of us), and to offer a coherent voice for those instructors to put their own views.

For instance, 18months or so ago, there was an "open" forum on countersteering run by the DSA... it was never publicised to all trainers, the speaker list was apparently at the DSA's own invitation, and noone outside the usual round of consultees had a chance to put a view, even in writing...

I'd dearly love to kick off an independent organisation that would give ALL instructors of whatever affiliation, an equal voice... but I can't do it more or less alone.. it needs to be a cooperative effort - and that's where things fall down.

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diy
10/02/2005 at 18:02
firstly you picked NAAMI have a look at the entry requirements. I couldn't quite work out if it was a club for police class 1s or some way of profiteering out of an unregulated industry. eitherway membership benefits hardly seemed worth the money.

secondly, look at the problems RoADA have because RoSPA have become the govt. lap dog with regard to policy endorsment. The day I have to tell an associate that speed kills or at 40mph they are twice as likely to kill a child than at 30 is the day I stop.

TBH I honest l think the DSA do not see a need for advanced training as 'surely people just need to obbey the speed limit to be safe'.
diy
10/02/2005 at 18:03
The Spin Doctor wrote

I'd dearly love to kick off an independent organisation that would give ALL instructors of whatever affiliation, an equal voice... but I can't do it more or less alone.. it needs to be a cooperative effort - and that's where things fall down.


you're forgetting F.A.R.T
10/02/2005 at 19:32
[QUOTE=diy] NAAMI / RoSPA
QUOTE]


Charles Davis(sp)

done it dont want to do it again
COG#4 TIT120 SG82

Training in and around Oxfordshire


10/02/2005 at 19:52
Quote

you're forgetting F.A.R.T



All original contributions to this forum by Kevin Williams are subject to a (cc) Creative Commons deed.
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 UK: England & Wales
Full terms are available here
but in brief if you use the author's work for any purpose, it's under the following conditions:
* Attribution. You must give the original author credit.
* Non-Commercial. You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
* Share Alike. If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under a licence identical to this one.
VD DEALS Blog Courses Books Facebook Twitter FREE STUFF

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

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