Motorcycle & Sidecar Combinations

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11/06/2007 at 12:02
Q1 How many of you have ridden/driven them?

Q2 How many of the instructors would feel 'qualified' to train someone to set-up and use one?

Me? Q1 'Yes'; Q2 NoNONOOOOOOO!KeepItAwaaaaaayFromMe!

Q3 If you (not just the instructors) had to train someone, what source reference material would you use?

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

11/06/2007 at 12:17
Q1, yes, but keep the things away from me, please.....

Q2, only in so far as to say, keep your feet up, trapping an ankle under the bar that joins the two together can be both painful and very embarrassing.

Might go post the true horror in "War Stories"......

Murphy's 6th Law 'if every thing appears to be going fine, you missed something'

One day my fingers will type the letters teh in the correct order..... one day.....

Want a holiday in France?

TiT #38D
11/06/2007 at 12:22
I had one for three days and then my mate who had up until then seemed more competent on it than me lifted the chair wheel on an s bend, panic braked and the bike went one side of a lampost and the chair went the other. The paving stone under the seat went out through the fibreglass chair body

I wouldn't know where to look for reference material but would suggest that they get some tips from someone that rides an outfit and not to try and work it out for themselves.


http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v168/206/11/676689638/s676689638_331243_7767.jpg

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
Half of what I say is meaningless.

11/06/2007 at 12:29
Q1 Yes
Q2 Not applicable as I'm not an instructor. ( what a get-out eh? )
Q3 I'd speak to my fellow-members in the Federation of Sidecar Clubs and ask them for info/tips/lessons etc. On failing that I'd ask Horse if his old instructor mate who used to know about sidecar driving is still available.

Did I win the prize?

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
11/06/2007 at 13:52
Q1 ... Yes twice, an old BMW outfit and a Honda CB750 outfit over the years. 1 ride on each was enough. Once to know I couldnt do it, another to prove it.

Q2 ... Hmmm ... Absolutely not, the things are dangerous, I too trapped my leg, and just managed to steer a zig zag course up a straight road (and then only just).

Q3 ... I would find a nice old timer ( I used to know one such person, really nice guy) bribe him him a promise of plenty of beer, go back to the farm where he worked, huge concrete courtyard, private roads etc and ask him to demonstate, then retire to the bar and listen to the stories which were great.
11/06/2007 at 14:58
Q1: Yes - Norton 16H with Watsonian Avon for about 2 years (couldn't be bothered to take a test..........)
Q2: N/A
Q3: agree with finding someone who knows what they're doing. Also some of the older bookks like "Motorcycles and how to Mangle Them" had useful tips like using one side of the bars only like a tiller to get used to it. Probably easier with twistgrips that stayed where you put them though.....

The worst bit I remember is that horrible lurch when you first put a bit of left lock on and the bike suspension loads up whilst the chair lifts a tiny bit - but enough to convince you it's coming over your head.......

Ian.

2004 Triumph Tiger 955i
1955 Velocette Viper

13/06/2007 at 12:51
13/06/2007 at 13:03
I rode one for a couple of years. Ace fun.

Started with a CZ350 with an open topped wooden box + Reliant seat cable tied in. Worth nothing, cost not a lot more. Great for learning on.

Then a superdream with a light-weight fibreglass chair an a piece of slate for weight. Hours and hours of fun, lifting the chair, pulling stoppies, fitting a side-car brake (that was truly a mod worth doing). Enormouse barn-door fairing meant riding to work in open-face and ordinary trousers was no problem. Huge top box + trailer hitch = mucho carry capability.

I've writ some tips on VD not long ago, in the General forum.

Best excuse for being late to work: hooned the 'dream sideways round a roundabout, came out the other end and the side-car wheel shock absorber twanged off. Flew 20ft and landed at the feet of an old lady waiting for a bus. She just looked at with an "I saw worse during the war, sonny" expression. I did a u-turn with teh chair in the air and rode back home like that

Buy one, don't put anyone or anything you love in the chair for the 1st couple of months. At least once you will come round a bend on the wrong side of the road - never brake, allways more gas.

"There are certain fixed rules that one observes for one's own comfort. For instance, never be flippantly rude to any inoffensive, grey-bearded stranger you may meet in pine forests or hotel smoking-rooms on the Continent. It always turns out to be the King of Sweden"

H.H.Munro

VDSC#16
13/06/2007 at 13:05
Ta

Winchcromp wrote
Sidecar operators manual.


Photo P26

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

13/06/2007 at 13:15
Q1.Yes, once. Vincent Black Shadow with a wheel and a plank attached. Bloody lethal things, 10 miles scared me off them for life.
Q2. N/A
Q3. How much information do you need. DO NOT TOUCH SIDECARS UNLESS YOU HAVE A DEATH-WISH.

Cousin Jack

(a member of an oppressed minority whose legitimate aspirations to nationhood have been brutally suppressed by the Anglo Saxon invaders. Remember An Gof !)
diy
13/06/2007 at 14:54
I think it depends on the articulation of the side car

If its fixed you have to set up the corners by braking or accelerating depending if its a left of right. I had a go on one, but 2bh never got the hang of the steering.

Alternatively, just lean it over until the side car is airborn and ride like a normal bike.

I think I'd steer clear of machine control, but check they at least new how it worked and focus on advanced observation, positioning etc - may be the iAM car theory?
13/06/2007 at 15:01
redorzed wrote
...never brake, allways more gas.


How on earth do you stop one at traffic lights and such?!
13/06/2007 at 15:15
diy wrote
I think it depends on the articulation of the side car

If its fixed . . .


Have a look at those links posted earlier, for the Equilean.

Novel system, I remember reading about it. The chair was pivoted at the front, so it could swing 'up' alongside the bike on a track, giving independant suspension, and both track and pivot were hinged on the chair so it could lean over parallel with the bike - like a parallelogram.

Also meant that the bike leant around corners

And it was a slightly more sophisticated system than the 'Sidewinder' used over here to circumvent the learner laws.

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

13/06/2007 at 15:44
DefiledDragon wrote
How on earth do you stop one at traffic lights and such?!

Assuming you haven't got one with a braked and/or driving sidecar wheel, heavy on the brakes and cling on to the bars or the momentum of the chair chair will try to carry it forward and will turn round the braking bike. Think of running along the footpath and grabbing a lamp-post. It's sort of like that.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
diy
13/06/2007 at 16:30
So given BB's explaination - in theory it could high side uder heavy braking
13/06/2007 at 19:39
diy wrote
So given BB's explaination - in theory it could high side uder heavy braking


round a corner you mean? never brake round corners! brake on a left hander and the chair will drag the bike in a straight line, causing you to go "aargh", brake harder, go more straight on and damage road-side furniture.

In a straight line? I'm confidenet you couldn't high-side a combo

"There are certain fixed rules that one observes for one's own comfort. For instance, never be flippantly rude to any inoffensive, grey-bearded stranger you may meet in pine forests or hotel smoking-rooms on the Continent. It always turns out to be the King of Sweden"

H.H.Munro

VDSC#16
diy
14/06/2007 at 07:47
No on a staight..

brake hard, bike pulls to the right, counter with a steer to the left, car lifts and only has to go above the COG to cause a flip. soft springs on the bike and no suspension on the car would also encourage this?

Also depending where its attached it could also affect the front or rear braking bias needed.

I'm starting to think that sidecars do actually make the bike inherently dangerous
14/06/2007 at 08:44
diy wrote
So given BB's explaination - in theory it could high side uder heavy braking


Scroll back through the thread, look for the page number & link, look at the photo . . .

Training info is (C) Malcolm Palmer. He asserts his right to be identified as author under the Copyright Design Patents Act 1988 & may be quoted only as part of a post in the Visordown bb by another board member. Author should be contacted for written permission before any other use, storage, transmission or recording, by any means.

Read my mutterings:

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

15/06/2007 at 13:07
diy wrote
No on a staight..

brake hard, bike pulls to the right, counter with a steer to the left, car lifts and only has to go above the COG to cause a flip. soft springs on the bike and no suspension on the car would also encourage this?

Also depending where its attached it could also affect the front or rear braking bias needed.

I'm starting to think that sidecars do actually make the bike inherently dangerous


Sidecars don't kill people, inappropriate braking kills people

Seriosuly, sidecar outfits are no more inherently dangerous than any other PTW. IF you ride like a nob, without respect for the machine or the road, you are going to get hurt. This is true of skateboards and Koeingseigg supercars and all points inbetween.

You would have to countersteer really hard to lift the chair in a straight line: it takes effort. A serious chair, like a Squire or a double-adult montrosity thing weighs A LOT. When you are braking hard, all the forces are acting to bring the whole vehicle /down/. Esp. with telescopic froks on the fornt.

Like I said, get a side-car brake. Makes the whole thing very controllable, and stops you much quicker. And you can do tricks like hoofing the thing round in it's own lenght

I'm finding it hard to explain, maybe because riding a chair is like riding a bike; once you get used to it, you just do it, without thinking about the mechanics of what you are doing.

Er, I do realise there are a lot of instructor type people around here who think very hard about what they are doing and how to explain it to other peeps. I'm just crap at that kind of thing.

Summary: they ain't dangerous unless you want to ride dangerously!

"There are certain fixed rules that one observes for one's own comfort. For instance, never be flippantly rude to any inoffensive, grey-bearded stranger you may meet in pine forests or hotel smoking-rooms on the Continent. It always turns out to be the King of Sweden"

H.H.Munro

VDSC#16
16/06/2007 at 10:52
I quite fancy the idea of a sidecar.
It has been suggested a try before you buy approach would be wise.
But try where? Watsonian Squire have an open day coming up on 28/29 July, any other ideas?

Would it be possible to get a chair and attach it to my zrx1200? How are they attached?
Are all these questions answered in the manuals posted earlier in this thread?

How easy is it to attach / remove a sidecar?

questions, questions, questions....

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
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