How do you jump off?

13 messages

27/04/2011 at 15:52

Hi,
Have been wondering if you get into a situation like that video of the Russian bloke falling under a truck, ie for whatever reason something has pulled out and you know you are going to hit it.
In that vid I think he's better off having slid along rather than gone head first into the truck. But how do you come off at speed such that you don't get your legs ravelled up with the bike?
Having only ever fallen off a pushbike at speed it's obv a bit different.
- If you squeeze the front brake as hard as possible at speed, am I right in thinking you will ALWAYS either stop normally or else lock up and then the wheel will give way? It isn't possible to go over the handle bars?

- Once you come off like this (ie not a high side) will the bike always go in front of you? So you can't get yourself caught up with the bike - just make sure you pull your leg out of the way before the bike hits the ground.

- Could you instead just jump upwards? Like, push off both of the footpegs and let go of the bars?

I would kinda like to get super armoured up at a track somewhere, and practice this kind of thing...

cheers
Nigel

Admag

28/04/2011 at 11:45

Id say in the split second you realised your going to hit it what can i do - you've hit it.

better to push your obs out further and read the conditions adjusting course and speed accordingly.

jumping off and doing a superman should be left to films and choreographed stunts.

The Spin Doctor

29/04/2011 at 10:12

Have a read of this article by former advanced instructor Malcolm Palmer (who used to post on here as Horse.

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

wasabi

02/05/2011 at 16:02

Going over the handlebars? Technically possible I suppose but realistically doing a 'stoppie' is a balancing skill. I'd reckon the bike is more likely to go down if you overdo it. Unless you have ABS of course.

Horse's article is a good one. I'd suggest you'd be better served by attempting a fairly dramatic (counter)steer / swerve instead though. As everyone has said though, at the end of the day all this stuff assumes you've already effed it up so choices are limited - roll the dice and pray

Bike Breaker

02/05/2011 at 21:49

Admag wrote (see)

Id say in the split second you realised your going to hit it what can i do - you've hit it.

If you've never had a truly scary moment, you'd be surprised at what you can do in a very short space of time, particularly if you've practised various manoeuvres.

I agree with Wasabi on this. I'd prefer to go for a swerve where I could possible hit something rather than going straight on to where I'd probably hit something, but I wouldn't rule out acrobatics as a last resort.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

The Spin Doctor

03/05/2011 at 07:38

In Horse's case, the car pulled out from a sideroad on a mini-roundabout, where there's so little time and distance, there was no room for evasion when she did go.

Research shows that if you hit a car still seated, you're thrown forwards and just enough upwards that your thighs usually hit the bar, then your body rotates and you hit your head/upper torso along the edge of the roof/top of the doors which is one of the stiffest parts of the car body (because they're designed to stop the roof collapsing in on the occupants if the car rolls).

If you remember to stand up (or jump!) at the last moment before impact (after braking as hard as possible to lose as much momentum as possible and thus make the impact as gentle as possible) you've got a better chance of being thrown clear over the top of the car, as Horse demonstrated.

The solution to "the last split second realisation" is not to realise in the last split second - as I've written MANY times on this forum. Plan ahead, don't be taken by surprise.

Look at the junction and think "a car could pull out"

Look at the car approaching the junction and think "what if the driver hasn't seen me?"

Look at the car slowing down as it approaches the junction and think "what if the driver doesn't stop?"

Look at the car that's stopped and think "what if he changes his mind?"

Check the mirrors, cover the brakes and even lightly apply them to reduce your reaction times, slow down to reduce your stopping distance, cover the horn to stop the CAR driver and watch for signs of movement so you can react instantly rather than go through the sequence of "he must have seen me, he can't possibly be pulling out, b*gger he IS pulling out" panic reaction.

If you're pre-prepared you can stop in 3 bike lengths from 25mph - which would still have been a reasonable speed on the road where Horse had his collision.

If you approach blind junctions, junctions with waiting cars, junctions with cars on intersecting courses this way, you're far more likely to be able to apply the RIGHT responseto the situation at the right moment.

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

The Spin Doctor

03/05/2011 at 07:40

Oh, and it's quite possible to loop sportsbikes and standards - they've got more than enough brakes to do the job - if you can stoppie, you can loop it - it's only a case of carrying a bit more momentum when the rear wheel lifts and if you don't release the front, the rear end will rotate over the top of the front wheel spindle.

Bikes with a longer wheelbase and a lower, more rearwards centre of mass will skid the front before they lift the rear.

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

Bike Breaker

04/05/2011 at 12:38

The Spin Doctor wrote (see)

Research shows that if you hit a car still seated, you're thrown forwards and just enough upwards that your thighs usually hit the bar, then your body rotates and you hit your head/upper torso along the edge of the roof/top of the doors which is one of the stiffest parts of the car body (because they're designed to stop the roof collapsing in on the occupants if the car rolls).

Which is another reason for swerving towards the rear if you can rather than going straight into the side. If the car has a boot at the back and you can't get avoid a collision, you've a bit of a chance of sliding over the lower part instead of smacking it. The down side is that you could to fall off the other side onto your head.

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Horse

16/06/2011 at 13:33

Hi Again

Just decided to have a nostalgic trip down Forum Lane, and find I'm still the centre of attention

On the junction where I jumped (actually more of a quick stand up) I was able to subsequently check my speed on the loaner VFR800 I had.

When there was no other traffic I'd glance at the digital speedo (it was on a regular route, so plenty of opportunities), and typically it was between 12-15mph. Ok, stopping might have been possible from that speed - but my final memory before the world went dark was the simultaneous Bang! as I stood up. With hindsight, probably why I landed twisted (and bitter).

Bearing in mind it was a mini-roundabout, I was already on it when the car started to move, so not much space or distance!

Bye!

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Read my mutterings:

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wasabi

21/06/2011 at 19:10

Welcome back Hoss.

Do you think being on a loan bike contributed much to the crash happening in the first place, and the choice of jump over braking?

The Spin Doctor

22/06/2011 at 16:42

I think you'll find he crashed the Beemer and the Viffer was the loan bike post accident.

For Hitler of course, the problem was the other way round.

"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC :burnout:

Ben Cope

29/07/2011 at 17:02

Forget it.

When people say "I laid the bike down" they're firmly talking out of their arse.

What they mean to say is "I grabbed the front brake until I locked the front and then ended up on my arse"

If you have time to 'choose to lay it down' you have time to slow down more on the bike.

Jack William

19/08/2012 at 12:40

If you've never had a truly scary moment, you'd be surprised at what you can do in a very short space of time, particularly if you've practised various manoeuvres.

CNA Training

Edited: 19/08/2012 at 12:41