Bikes v Horses?

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Bikes v Horses?

Should horse riders have some sort of license or cirtificate to ride on the road?

Should they be wearing high viz as a rule?

Where do i stand if i/we fall off due to horses on the road?

Dunno about hi-viz?If you can't see a horse then you're just not looking I would imagine a sensible horse owner would have 3rd party insurance (you know - like all bikes have insurance )Having said that I've found the best thing to do is keep well away from them. Very wide berth, dead slow and quiet (but ready to go rather more quickly if necessary.)

Should horse riders have some sort of license or cirtificate to ride on the road?They don't need one, same as pedestrians.  Whether they should or not is immaterial, they don't.I've found the best thing to do is keep well away from them. Very wide berth, dead slow and quiet (but ready to go rather more quickly if necessary.)Wise advice.   Horses are big, one end has big teeth, the other end has nasty hooves. You really don't want to argue with a ton of frightened horse.(and horses are often ridden by tasty young ladies, who are often ever so friendly if you have been polite and considerate to them.  Not that  anyone here would be influenced by that of course)

Paulybab wrote (see)

Dunno about hi-viz?If you can't see a horse then you're just not looking

I can recall at least one occasion locally, where I've come around a bend to be confronted with a girl on a horse coming the other way.  Large dark brown horse with young lady wearing dark top and olive green body warmer,  problem being behind them was a tall hedgerow (taller than horse and rider) - dark green foliage and dark brown trunks(?).  It was quite a bright day too, on the last occasion. I generally don't have a problem with horses being ridden on the road, except for piles of poop on corner entries, and the fact that I usually find them riding two side by side as I come around a nice corner! But some of the (horse) riders could do with a quiet word of advice. I usually try to knock the bike up a couple of gears and bring the revs down, pass slow and wide and not rev the engine suddenly, but it can be a bit difficult when you spot them mid corner whilst lent over. I find if you try to be courteous, they'll usually acknowledge with a wave and a smile.

NC30Gnome wrote (see)

Paulybab wrote (see)

Dunno about hi-viz?If you can't see a horse then you're just not looking

I can recall at least one occasion locally, where I've come around a bend to be confronted with a girl on a horse coming the other way.  , pass slow and wide and not rev the engine suddenly, but it can be a bit difficult when you spot them mid corner whilst lent over. .

Doesnt this come back to riding at a speed so that we can stop well within the distance we can see to be clear?

siwel wrote (see)

NC30Gnome wrote (see)
Paulybab wrote (see)

Dunno about hi-viz?If you can't see a horse then you're just not looking

I can recall at least one occasion locally, where I've come around a bend to be confronted with a girl on a horse coming the other way.  , pass slow and wide and not rev the engine suddenly, but it can be a bit difficult when you spot them mid corner whilst lent over. .

Doesnt this come back to riding at a speed so that we can stop well within the distance we can see to be clear?

Its not just horses that you may find lurking around corners.  Out of town I've also seen at least (in no particular order): sheep, cows, stray dogs, shit from all manner of beasties, the infirm and confused, invisibly dressed pedestians and cylclists, those battery powered invalid carriages, a sinclair C5 (once), stationary vehicles, traffic cones,  bloody great holes, bales of hay, fallen trees, large drifts of potatoes, of apples, of wheat, of gravel and sudden changes in road surface. Slow in, slightly less slow out... 

Cousin Jack wrote (see)

Wise advice.   Horses are big, one end has big teeth, the other end has nasty hooves. You really don't want to argue with a ton of frightened horse.(and horses are often ridden by tasty young ladies, who are often ever so friendly if you have been polite and considerate to them.  Not that  anyone here would be influenced by that of course)

And a huge lump of iron nailed to the hoof and big muscles to propel it. Always give a wide berth; no matter how good the rider the horse still has a mind of its own and bikes startle them more than cars. Can't always guarantee its tasty young ladies riding them (same as some people looking like their pets) If you're in an area used by the local hunt always take a bit of extra care (multiple riders and dogs not on leashes) Always found horse riders are quite considerate types and most wear hi-viz voluntarily (most riding schools advise it)

When encountering the Local Hunt i'm always tempted to do the best i can to get in their way...not so easily done on a bike though Notwithstanding the above, horse riders are almost unfailingly courteous. Some of our number could learn from them....

simon maclennan wrote (see)

 Notwithstanding the above, horse riders are almost unfailingly courteous. Some of our number could learn from them....

They don't fit loud cans or leave the beams on either.

No, but they produce hothouse gases all the same

(I'm a fair weather horse rider BTW, so happy to keep the status quo)

siwel wrote (see)

NC30Gnome wrote (see)
Paulybab wrote (see)

Dunno about hi-viz?If you can't see a horse then you're just not looking

I can recall at least one occasion locally, where I've come around a bend to be confronted with a girl on a horse coming the other way.  , pass slow and wide and not rev the engine suddenly, but it can be a bit difficult when you spot them mid corner whilst lent over. .

Doesnt this come back to riding at a speed so that we can stop well within the distance we can see to be clear?

I didn't mention anything about speed. On that particular occasion I was going quite slowly (for a change ) mainly due to negotiating a series of 's' bends whilst riding into bright sunlight. The point I was trying to make was that the horse and rider were quite effectively camouflaged against the hedgerow, meaning they didn't register immediately. So whilst lent over in the corner, mid way through the 's' bends, spot horse and rider and tried to slow whilst changing up a couple of gears (not the best situation, I know). I would have spotted the horse and rider much sooner if she'd been wearing the usual hi-viz.Then again I could have just carried on at my original pace.  BTW all three of my boss's daughters and his wife own and ride horses. And his daughters all work in the equestrian 'trade' as it were, so I can see things from their point of view.

I suspect that wearing hi-viz on a horse (or as a ped/cyclist) under some circumstances may be a good idea (better maybe for the horse to wear hi-viz leggings as the rider is often above the habitual eyeline) but the obligation to ride safely and to be able to stop in the distance that you can see is clear lies entirely with the rider of the bike.    If you are riding where you don’t have a good clear view you must slow down.  Insisting that other road users ought to wear hi-viz appears to me to be trying to shift the responsibility onto the other road user* (after all it is the bike that is traveling relatively quickly compared to the horse).  Assuming that hazards are well marked will lead to assumptions and certain doom.   As I posted earlier, except for the traffic cone, there are very many other hazards out there that will never, ever be wearing hi-viz.    * I tend to think of it in a similar way to locking the house to avoid burglary:  it may well prevent a casual thief from getting in and thus avoid any incident but whether the house is locked or not, the responsibility for the burglary lies with the burglar and not the house owner. 

I actually think most roads are now a bit too dangerous for horses to be on, and yes they should be licenced and insured.Its a real shame their isnt more decent off road places where horses can go.I dont know the legal situation regarding a fall. I certainly wouldnt like to be involved in any incident with a horse.I say that as one who used to ride/own horses and have always ridden bikes.

I've seen a picture on here of two horse and riders with hi-viz on but they just disappear against the bright green foliage.Hi-vis is not a guarantee that you will be easily seen.I think it is one of Horses pictures, but search being what it is I can't find it.

<<I think it is one of Horses pictures, but search being what it is I can't find it.>>The irony Can't find it even though it's hi-viz

yes it doesn't stand out enough

So men working on the road shouldn't have to wear high viz cos it doesn't guarantee they'll be seen!No, it doesn't guarantee you'll be seen but, it certanly helps!!!!!!

<<So men working on the road shouldn't have to wear high viz cos it doesn't guarantee they'll be seen!No, it doesn't guarantee you'll be seen but, it certanly helps!!!!!! >>So what if these workmen are standing on a road behind which is an oilseed rape field in full bloom?How will it help to see them?And if it doesn't help, why might that be?

Nikkie wrote (see)

I actually think most roads are now a bit too dangerous for horses to be on, and yes they should be licenced and insured.

If you carry that argument forward, so should pedestrians. Yes roads are more dangerous now, but that's not the fault of the horse is it?

Then surely if horse riders were wearing high viz then it would give them the chance to be seen!A license or certificate to ride on the would be a good idea too.You could strap a young teenager with very little road sense to a 1 tonne horse and they can trot happily down to the shops!  If a car or dare i say it, a 'motorbike' comes along the road, the horse gets scared, car or bike was speeding!!!!!

<<Then surely if horse riders were wearing high viz then it would give them the chance to be seen!>>

How's it going to help if they are out of sight, round a bend?

gixxer75 wrote (see)

A license or certificate to ride on the would be a good idea too.You could strap a young teenager with very little road sense to a 1 tonne horse and they can trot happily down to the shops!  If a car or dare i say it, a 'motorbike' comes along the road, the horse gets scared, car or bike was speeding!!!!!

I would hazard a guess that before any rider gets on the road that they have had a lot more time and training in the saddle than ,say, a 16yr old that has just completed a cbt

gixxer75 wrote (see)

A license or certificate to ride on the would be a good idea too.You could strap a young teenager with very little road sense to a 1 tonne horse and they can trot happily down to the shops!  If a car or dare i say it, a 'motorbike' comes along the road, the horse gets scared, car or bike was speeding!!!!!

Why would a license be a good idea and what would be the point of further regulating horse riding?  Most regulation is an attempt to control an acitvity that is perceived as or has been  harmful or antisocial.  As has been pointed out earlier, the overwhelmingly huge majority of horse riders (that I have met anyway) are about as courteous to other road users as it is possible to be and although it is possible that young teenagers could rampage through the shops on daddy's destrier, they don't tend to (I've never heard of it), unlike the many fast bikes or cars I've seen breaking the speed limit (on shopping streets) by a lot and generally riding/driving badly. 

siwel wrote (see)

I would hazard a guess that before any rider gets on the road that they have had a lot more time and training in the saddle than ,say, a 16yr old that has just completed a cbt

Most youngsters (and a few older riders too) take the BHS riding and roadsafety exam fairly early on, certainly before they really venture out alone on the roads.

I must agree that horse riders are pretty much blameless when it comes to behaviour on the road. I cannot think of a single instance of horse-rage. Licensing is an infringement on the liberties of horse riders and serves no useful purpose whatsoever (unless you happen to be the Chancellor of the Exchequer).As has been said already, it matters not if you are on a bike or in a car, if you can't see around a bend anticipate the worst and go in slowly enough to stop if necessary. God, I'm stroppy tonight! Sorry!xx

shouldnt they have to do at least a days training on a pony first to prove their competency, then maybe take a test on a donkey before being allowed out on the road on a horse??? 

Just trying to think of how you could restrict younger riders to smaller, less powerful ponies... a limit on horsepower perhaps? I'll get my coat. 

neverbybus wrote (see)

Just trying to think of how you could restrict younger riders to smaller, less powerful ponies... a limit on horsepower perhaps? I'll get my coat. 

ponies tend to be frisky little f**kers and can spin around in a nanosecond....generally, the bigger the horse the slower it's initial change in direction (it's a maths/physics thing I think) agree with most posts...one things for sure....a horse is far more difficult to control properly than a bike..... always give the horse & rider the benefit of the doubt....sloooooowwly does it.....every time...... n.b. ...young horsie ladies tend to have very little cellulite.... guys...if you want to meet loads of elligible ladies....join your  local horse riding club......TALLY-HO!

Licensing would be nice if the rider had complete control of his steed. As it happens, a horse is not quite like a bike: it has a personality of its own, can spite you out even if you're not being a cock, and is subject to such strange things as emotions, fear being the one that matters here.

neverbybus wrote (see)

Just trying to think of how you could restrict younger riders to smaller, less powerful ponies... a limit on horsepower perhaps? I'll get my coat. 

Where would you fit the restrictor kit? I wouldn't like to be the person who had to fit the restrictor kit!

The majority of horses are ,in fact, insured at least third party....this is common and covers most incidents..If you are unfortunate enough to lose against a horse (and you will if you find yourself in that situation) you can claim against the insurance which is 'Public Liability Insurance' and normally covers quite a high financial amount.I don't know of any horse owner foolish enough not to have thier horse insured...it is way too costly if the horse requires treatment for anything...(which is regular)

argentifa wrote (see)

agree with most posts...one things for sure....a horse is far more difficult to control properly than a bike.....

When you can do this with a bike http://www.flixxy.com/world-equestrian-games-freestyle-dressage.htm Then I will accept your statement. But seriously, it's not the control, it's the fact that a horse is a living being, with it's own brain, thoughts and fears. That fear can come from just one "horse-eating monster" plastic bag in the gutter!

On Saturday on a country B road I came across a group of young riders on ponies and a woman walking on their outside, plus older girls leading some of the smallest ones' mounts, all in hi-viz. Obviously I slowed right down and passed slow and wide, getting a cheery wave from the group leader, the Burgman's quiet exhaust note and absence of gear changes probably helping.Once years ago on an MZ 2-stroke I upset a couple of horses a bit with all its ring-tinging as I slowed at close quarters on a narrow road and another time 20 years ago I came round a bend in a VW Beetle and found a horse rearing up in panic, though fortunately it was being led rather than ridden: I think it was being acclimatised to traffic and imagine the odd spluttering of the Vee Dub is what set it off.A friend owns a horse and our daughters have ridden it including on quiet country lanes (led by the owner) and I can assure you that this is an activity that is taken very seriously, with the owner keeping a constant ear open for arriving traffic. It is a placid old thing and the only time we had cause for concern was when on a bridle path we were going under a railway bridge just as an express train came down the line above: the horse's owner got a firm grip and despite the defeaning roar the horse just pranced slightly, which is pretty impressive really. I shall ask our friend about insurance next time I see her, but I am pretty sure she will have cover as, as was said by others, horses are quite expensive animals to buy and care for so its pretty much a necessity.

<<Once years ago on an MZ 2-stroke I upset a couple of horses a bit with all its ring-tinging as I slowed at close quarters on a narrow road and another time 20 years ago I came round a bend in a VW Beetle and found a horse rearing up in panic, though fortunately it was being led rather than ridden: I think it was being acclimatised to traffic and imagine the odd spluttering of the Vee Dub is what set it off.>>

If the horse looks skittish, I'll turn the headlight off if it's on, and even kill the engine... as long as I've not slowed too much or it's uphill, it's usually possible to glide paste silently.

Must admit I usually clutch in and try and get past as quietly and with as wide as berth as is possible...surely its just sensible and good manners! Most horse riders give a cheery wave and as lots are female its a good chance to see some very tidy rears in jodpurs! 

The Spin Doctor wrote (see)

<<Once years ago on an MZ 2-stroke I upset a couple of horses a bit with all its ring-tinging as I slowed at close quarters on a narrow road and another time 20 years ago I came round a bend in a VW Beetle and found a horse rearing up in panic, though fortunately it was being led rather than ridden: I think it was being acclimatised to traffic and imagine the odd spluttering of the Vee Dub is what set it off.>> If the horse looks skittish, I'll turn the headlight off if it's on, and even kill the engine... as long as I've not slowed too much or it's uphill, it's usually possible to glide paste silently.

Yes I do generally pull the clutch in on a geared bike, but there is neither a kill switch nor an  electric start on the older MZs , making the whole engine of, engine on business rather more of a disturbance both to yourself and anything around you.

brilec wrote (see)

argentifa wrote (see)

agree with most posts...one things for sure....a horse is far more difficult to control properly than a bike.....

When you can do this with a bike http://www.flixxy.com/world-equestrian-games-freestyle-dressage.htm Then I will accept your statement. But seriously, it's not the control, it's the fact that a horse is a living being, with it's own brain, thoughts and fears. That fear can come from just one "horse-eating monster" plastic bag in the gutter!

..that is one f*ck off horse there!! brilliant....! I met Kira Kirkland a few years back, and foolishly thought I could learn something by watching her.....thing is...I watched her for nearly an hour, and you just could not tell where her aids were! awesome....

It's my wife who is the horse rider, plus two daughters.I have to say that the consensus of opinion from them and all their friends, is that bikers, on the whole, are the most courteous group of other road users.So keep up the good work.I also would point out that none of them ride on roads if there is an alternative, bridle paths are far better, but rarely directly available. 

TRF Code of conduct is handy for offroad and road riding. Most of it is common courtesy.

just thinking of a year or so ago when i was green laning on the way home from work and having to slam the breaks on (gravel in the centre of the lane) due to six or seven horse riders, the youngest looking about 8...naturally when you break hard on gravel you slide... which inturn scared the two older riders' (sited at the back of the pack) horses.. so i stopped, turned off the engine, and waited for five minutes... at which point they got to the top of the lane when i caught up, so i went the other way at the cross roads... fcuking idiots were riding two by two, down a country lane with over hanging trees, close to dusk, with no safety equipment other than helmets...  conclusion: i pay my road tax, you dont, get off my road

<<just thinking of a year or so ago when i was green laning on the way home from work and having to slam the breaks on (gravel in the centre of the lane) due to six or seven horse riders, the youngest looking about 8...

naturally when you break hard on gravel you slide>>

Presumably your point is that you completely failed to anticipate or spot half a dozen horses in the kind of environment you're likely to come across them and then were going too quickly to stop on a loose surface, and nearly lost control of the bike as a result of your incompetence?

Pringle wrote (see)

just thinking of a year or so ago when i was green laning on the way home from work and having to slam the breaks on (gravel in the centre of the lane) due to six or seven horse riders, the youngest looking about 8...naturally when you break hard on gravel you slide... which inturn scared the two older riders' (sited at the back of the pack) horses.. so i stopped, turned off the engine, and waited for five minutes... at which point they got to the top of the lane when i caught up, so i went the other way at the cross roads... fcuking idiots were riding two by two, down a country lane with over hanging trees, close to dusk, with no safety equipment other than helmets... conclusion: i pay my road tax, you dont, get off my road

It is a shame that you and your riding style will have left a much stronger impression on those horse riders than I and mine will have on the ones I passed the other day.

The Spin Doctor wrote (see)

 If the horse looks skittish, I'll turn the headlight off if it's on, and even kill the engine... as long as I've not slowed too much or it's uphill, it's usually possible to glide paste silently.

Then you turn the kill switch back on and watch the fun. Naughty Spin.

<<Then you turn the kill switch back on and watch the fun. Naughty Spin.>>

Only do that with trainees who aren't paying attention

there are no rules on riding on roads. its up to the individual. if you know your horse isn't safe in traffic.....dont ride in traffic. i ride on roads/tracks every day....i ALWAYS wear flouresent jacket. and hat band...my horse wears flouresent rug,and leg protectors.this is just my preference,theres no rules. but i think its polite to wear it,giving other rooad users time to se you. and time to slow down a bit.most horses that ride regular in traffic aren't bothered bout size or speed of vehicles.quite often its just a russle in the bush,or hedgerow that spooks them,not the traffic......but this can make them jump out into the roadtheres a 'riding and rooad safety' course that riders can do,but its not compulsery.and theres nothing to say horses have to have insurance....most dont.in case of accident involving horse,not sure bout claiming??

SssoooooThis years Grand National is going to be held at Donnington Park because horses prefer tarmac rather than nice soft grass to run around on.If you own a HorseDoes it;A- Live in a stable and eat hay.ORB- Live in a garage and run on unleaded.I like horses in the right environment but have never understood why people want to ride them on the roads in the first place, a nice trot around a field must be a nicer and SAFER option.

Neil B wrote (see)

I like horses in the right environment but have never understood why people want to ride them on the roads in the first place, a nice trot around a field must be a nicer and SAFER option.

Do you ride a motorcycle on the road? Would it be nicer and SAFER to ride round an empty car park all the time? Would you want to do it?  I hate horses ( although I'm not averse to eating them ) but I wouldn't condemn riders to a boring lifetime going round and round the same circuit. That's only for racers.

Neil B wrote (see)

SssoooooThis years Grand National is going to be held at Donnington Park because horses prefer tarmac rather than nice soft grass to run around on.If you own a HorseDoes it;A- Live in a stable and eat hay.ORB- Live in a garage and run on unleaded.I like horses in the right environment but have never understood why people want to ride them on the roads in the first place, a nice trot around a field must be a nicer and SAFER option.

This is a typical mistake of the petrol head; you think that the road system was developed and is exclusively for the use of motorised transport. Well you are wrong on both counts, the road system predates the motor vehicle by centuries (though I will grant you that the system has been developed mainly with motor vehicles in mind since the sixties) and if you check legislation and the Highway Code you will find that pedestrians, horse riders and cyclists have every right to be there and you are duty bound to drive or ride accordingly. The only exception is the motorway system.

Sssooooo

This years Grand National is going to be held at Donnington Park because horses prefer tarmac rather than nice soft grass to run around on.

If you own a Horse

Does it;

A- Live in a stable and eat hay.

OR

B- Live in a garage and run on unleaded.

I like horses in the right environment but have never understood why people want to ride them on the roads in the first place, a nice trot around a field must be a nicer and SAFER option.

It never ceases to amaze me how blinkered [sic] and narrow-minded some motorcyclists can be on this issue.

It seems to have escaped your attention, but the network of bridleways that horseriders are entitled to use aren't alway contiguous and so short rides on roads are inevitable to get from one to another.

Personally I think we have quite enough tarmac to play with that given the few times we come into contact with horses on the road, it's hardly a major imposition on our time or good nature to slow down and pass carefully

And has it never occurred to you that your argument for a SAFER option is exactly the one that is used by all the various lobbies that want to get rid of any form of fringe activity they don't actively condone - usually because they participate?

I enjoy the occasional off-road jaunt on a PTW, yet because of exactly this kind of argument turned on its head "motorcycles should be confined to the tarmac" we have swinging legislation restricting access to historic rights of way.

On a far wider platform, the anti-motorcycle lobby uses the "safety" argument in an attempt to "rid the world of the hazard of motorcycles?"... "would motorcyclists be safer in a nice little car?"

I've only ever once that I can recall startled a horse badly and that was my fault - far too quick into a corner on a country lane I know well, one that I also knew horses were regularly to be found on. So if you think there is safety issue with horses, perhaps you should look at the way YOU approach the problem.

Do you ride a motorcycle on the road?Yes, for the last 23years Would it be nicer and SAFER to ride round an empty car park all the time? Safer YesWould you want to do it? How bigs the carpark, if it's race track size- Yes I hate horses ( although I'm not averse to eating them ) but I wouldn't condemn riders to a boring lifetime going round and round the same circuit. That's only for racers. I live on the edge of the North Yorkshire moors and there are a number of riding schools for horses. The closest one to me is very well run and has 15-20 horses that are ridden by kids (and mine ) and adults, the owners obviously have alot of land and money so it is self contained with a 4-5 acre field set up with jumps and training areas for the younger riders to gain control and learn how too groom their horses.  This place NEVER takes their horses on the road because of the dangers involved.I also see other very young (10-15 year olds) riding on the road unsupervised on horses that they cannot control or look after.   Trackdays are the only time i up the pace and i always ask myself afterwards why i bother having the expense of riding on the roads and the higher level of danger.The SURVIVAL title should be renamed ASSES THE RISKS, i have never startled a horse and if the above thinks he is in a position to give advise when he knew there could be horses on the back road and he still used excessive speed.We are all the best riders in the world, in our own opinion.

<<The SURVIVAL title should be renamed ASSES THE RISKS, i have never startled a horse and if the above thinks he is in a position to give advise when he knew there could be horses on the back road and he still used excessive speed.>>

I take it you mean me?

I give advice based on experience. I hope I'm honest enough to own up to mistakes, humble enough to admit them in public, and wise enough to learn from them.

I dare say tho, you've never used what turned out to be a poor choice of speed on the road...

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